Kira Network Interview - DeFi to the NEXT LEVEL

that everything is in good shape before we start all right guys and we are live so guys welcome to a very special episode of the box mining live stream today is friday the 27th of november and we have a very exciting episode on defy and how to solve a lot of the problems using of course kira so we have to cto and the ceo here so we have milana the ceo of kira and we have the cto matthews and you know in terms of this project right why i brought this project up and why this is kind of a very important interview for me is because there has been a lot of discussion about the technology about the security of blockchains and something that kira is doing in terms of security is extremely important and it's extremely important to kind of see the ideas going through so we'll give a brief overview we'll figure out what's happening and we'll take up their looks on what they're trying to build and solve in this space and of course the technology here as well this is one of the discussions that i've like when i had this discussion previously with these guys like my brain was like blown i was like whoa these guys are super smart so anyways uh let's start with uh kind of an introduction of everyone so i guess milana and uh matthews can you guys just do a brief intro of you guys um yourselves hey yeah sorry sorry yeah yeah just uh i guess it's a delay in the chat right so milana do you want to do a i guess a brief intro of yourself first i guess um yeah yeah of course um hi everyone i'm milana valmont i'm the co-founder and ceo of kira network um my background is in corporate finance i actually um studied finance in new york and i started my crypto journey in early 2017 first as an investor i got involved in the community investing in a couple of projects then i started volunteering for binance exchange in june 2017 then i started working full-time for an adcoin protocol as a project manager um later that year i moved to tel aviv uh to join a trading platform called knox um as a head of strategy and since uh last year i've been focusing my full attention to kira as a ceo nice and so so you've been you've been uh so you got really involved in the whole cryptocurrency space and uh um what what kind of made you jump to kira what was kind of inspiration behind that uh basically uh mateos and i have known each other since 2017 and we were both uh you know pretty much curious and involved within the interchange space such as cosmos network and uh polkadot so you know we thought that uh connecting um networks is the future that there's not going to be just one network that serves a million functions uh there's going to be thousands and thousands of networks uh that provide different utility and they're all connected together just like we have thousands of uh internet companies that uh you know provide certain utility for people uh compared to just having like one amazon that uh does all of it so it's the opposite of the maximalist idea right there's more than one coin and being able to connect between these coins and bridging these coins that's pretty much the next frontier problem to solve so um jumping over to founder matthias or uh matt i guess um i butcher people's names so i have to apologize this all the time on my channel but matt how did you get started i mean with all this with crypto in general or yeah with crypto with you know kira you know like how what's your inspiration here oh my my history in crypto is quite quite long i joined the space at around late 2011 2007 i think i learned about crypto from reddit which is lurking randomly there i started i tried mining i was very fascinated more in regards to kind of trading but crypto trading actually started convincing me when i seen kraken api which was one of the very first very usable apis that allowed you to interact with with with the centralized with centralized exchange and like trader cryptocurrencies you know the opportunities there were were always uh better than on the real market so that's what kind of attract me at the beginning uh i was obsessed about algorithmic trading i was writing my own bots for that uh and at some point in time i i got involved in the cosmos ecosystem and polkadot ecosystem i was there in the community for around three years engaging with many different projects helping them speccing stuff for them and at some point we had met with milana and started working on kira nice nice so so that's actually kind of interesting from a tech perspective like um you got interested in the financial aspect because you can build these apis and then you kind of realize okay look um you know you got involved in polka dot cross chain cosmos and everything here so okay so so going on to this project with kira and you know what is it's trying to solve what's what's kind of the core um idea behind it i mean you could both of you guys are very passionate about it what's the kind of core for it to solve um you know so kira is a decentralized network that allows you to utilize 100 of your working capital and it provides access to the market for any digital token so basically we're making it possible to stake any digital asset any cryptocurrency um stable coin and even nfts so you can uh claim the staking rewards uh and trade these assets or you can use other uh decentralized applications with your staked assets all at the same time so you can you know treat kira as an ecosystem that has um multiple functions that are going on there and we will have our very first um own decentralized application which is called uh interchange um exchange protocol where you would be able to uh stake and trade these assets directly in a secure and um scannable manner so it involves a lot of staking and with coins i mean obviously that's you can probably guess why i'm interested in this project because you know i've been very very involved in that scene but of course you know um so uh what's the court so core idea here is just taking capital that um has um you kind of um have already so let's say i have different coins um etc i stake them and i get the liquidity how does that work with kira like how does this all combine together and how does this cross-chain idea work so first of all you need to be able to transfer your tokens right to the network that allows you to stake yes this is achieved through interchange protocols right now two most mature protocols of that sort are cosmos inter blockchain communication protocol ibc and polka dot cross-chain message passing protocol so we're integrating with both of those protocols we also aim for our own uh bridge with it too but more generic than the critical bridge and through those means you'll be able to transfer assets from foreign blockchains to our blockchain our network where you'll be able to stake your assets and i think this is very interesting because sorry just to interrupt you here a little bit because i you know we've i've been farming for a while and you know uh one of the issues of course or or or you know this is the unspoken thing everything was on ethereum right so everything was on um if and how does how does this kind of um cross-chain transfer work we've seen some implementations of it right we've seen some attempts to to transfer this but let's say for example i have some ethereum i want to stake it um how how does that work like in terms of like um does it go into a staking contract it might save like i guess like my biggest concern here i mean is twofold right one is because this is a much grander project than the staking on ethereum because it involves multiple chains so on ethereum it was just the coins on eef but now you're talking about bringing multiple ecosystems together so how do you make it easy for people and how does it how do you make it safe for people i guess it's the the kind of core here so usually how staking sorry how interchange transfers work right in the context of ibc and xcmp is that you lock assets on yes chain a right and then you issue it them on chain b yes and how do you lock them on one chain or another is by let's say imagine you create a multi-seek smart contract and every single validator participating in your consensus has a key to that smart contract right yeah so the smart contract becomes as secure as trust within those validators that own those keys and maybe constantly rotate right maybe there can be some uh voting power associated with key on there are many many different ways how this can be implemented but the simplest way you can imagine it as a multi-seek asset is packed on one chain and then it's created on another while on the first one it's locked so from a user perspective sorry sorry to interrupt like i i really hate the delay in this um uh it's a zoom thing right so but let's say from a user perspective right so on like let's say they're on ethereum they have some eef um in terms of what they'll be doing um on the platform is just basically clicking a button and saying look um that would be locked up and then the asset will appear on the other chain right so it's almost like a seamless experience um uh kind of bridging that asset over so let's say i have 10 eef i want to lock up 10 eef um and move that to kira so i'll be going on to the staking platform i'll be locking it up clicking that button on metamask to approve it as it gets sent it goes to the multi-seek so i know it's secure and then on kira platform it'll it'll just magically appear yes you imagine that you create uh there's a smart contract like that you interact with and you send to this smart contract 10 ethereum and you send a message along your ethereum that says okay transfer those stop log those assets and transfer them to kira network and transfer them to the address xyz and then once the the kira network observes the state of ethereum and notice is okay this smart contract uh just log those assets this means i can issue those assets now um matching and from that point of time the users gets the assets created by the by the network itself by the state machine within his own wallet right so it's kind of like solving the tech behind how to make this possible right so um you know during the whole d5 summer i'll call it d5 summer but during d5 summer it was purely staking assets are on ethereum but now you're allowing basically as many assets as possible for so whether it's ethereum whether it's bitcoin whether it's some i don't know maybe another one lrond or some some crazy chain nft or nft anything so um anything that can be um any any other chain i can stake it and move it on to kira and to stake it on kira right so that's kind of the core core innovation here so um a few things right so um what what would bring my motivation to do so i mean um i guess that's the kind of the obvious question right so why would there be more rewards on say on kira or it what would be the driving factor for me to to to stake here uh i can actually i can actually answer that so you know the reason why um there will be a motivating factor to stake on kira compared to other chains is that you can stake on kira and your assets um you know don't get locked where you use uh uh your your capital so you can stake the asset and then you take the derivative of this asset and you can stake it again earning more rewards or you can trade it or you can use it with other defi uh applications so kira doesn't limit you just earning rewards from staking because we support staking derivatives natively so that gives you the ability to utilize 100 of your capital without any limitations and of course you get exposure to any asset out there compared to um you know chains that focus on staking uh the native asset so for example like i've mentioned before with kira you can stake any asset and how exactly the staking works is that you deposit the assets to cure network and then the governance of the network defines the interest rates for for the staking token depending for example like nfts right there's a um tokenized real estate so you can deposit that into kira then the governance decide like why do we need this asset um does it bring more security does it attract more people um like trading it um so then after that like the mechanism is not that much different from staking on your native coin on your typical proof of stake basically the coin gets locked uh to the value of your choice and then you start earning black and fee rewards so the block rewards come from our uh token cax and then the fee rewards are accredited in the basket of currencies uh people pay to interact uh with the network and you know from that you can stake um yeah any any asset like any uh digital like real estate gaming um item art so every single token uh becomes refundable and it can bring revenue um you know to the assets that didn't have access to the market before and because we don't lock your assets you utilize 100 of your capital so that's basically the prime motivation like why you would use kira compared to um other chains and that creates a positive feedback loop right once you deposit an asset you allow it you allow it staking it induces the network activity because once you have it liquid you can use it with the platform trade you put some defi application right uh this creates a piece which then you can again share with the people that stake assets so you have more money to share with even more people to stake even more and not try and back and i think this is the the harder part right i think it's like it's like once you dive deep into defi it's like it becomes more and more yields and more and more ways you can use um your money and i think this is kind of like uh characterized by my defi journey right like you first start you're like oh i staked something okay cool but then you stake something and you get another coin for it oh like look that's that's um the derivative that's the magic part of it and then you can use that derivative and use some derivative product and do something more right so i think a lot of people haven't like it depends on which stage you're at when defi like um and this is for the audience here as well because like um it really depends on how much you use it to realize how powerful it is i guess in that in that sense because i mean traditionally right like zooming out a little bit right let's say let's say i have a dollar uh do i have a dollar here i have a dollar on my table so here here apparently is a dollar um it's actually a real dollar i don't know why there's a dollar coin but i have one on my desk so so there's a dollar i deposit that to the bank that's great but the bank gives me a little bit of interest pretty much nothing at this current point especially the us dollar it's um not much interest rate right now at all and that that's the end of the story right but kind of the interesting part is that what the banks do with that money is pure magic right and i would say that the power of defi is that it allows us to actually have full control of what happens to that money and also happens to how you use that capital in the future and i think that's kind of the the craziest part so just then i was looking at the chat and people like oh like it sounds crazy right um uh how do you understand what are the derivative products so um maybe let's work for an example of this so let's say instead of having a dollar let's say i have one ethereum right so i have one ethereum i can either leave it on ethereum or i can migrate it to kira so if i migrated to kira i would get initially like how how would that work so like i click the button i migrated kira what happens now like what's my what's my yoda what what happens with the derivative products before you even start you already have um a dilemma right because you can transfer your ether but you can also transfer already a derivative of the ether so let's take the first scenario right that you are not transferring the derivative of ether yet you're just transferring it i'm a simp i'm a simp i'm transferring if yeah yeah yeah so just transferring it for now so once you transfer it right and the governance of the network decides okay if this token is staked and it's liquid it can bring a lot of kind of use case use for the network there will be more network activity there will be more fees paid so it's worth to share some percentage of fees right from the block reward of free rewards that people pay so you come to the network attracted by the rewards you stake them to the validator of choice and then one to one right you receive a staking derivative just a name fancy name and for an asset that represents the asset that is locked and it's staked so the real asset right that you staked it cannot be moved it's locked up but the asset that you receive a new asset which is transferable yeah so if the native asset right got slashed right because the validators validator or validator who chose worms behaving right would be slashed and portion of it would be liquidated then your original tokens which are transferable they would not be slashed but they would represent less value than they started with so this is the idea behind staking derivatives so you can have a token that represents another token which can be slashable each its value can change right so it's not one-to-one value it's just representation representation of that value right so so so it's almost like me going to bank and saying look okay the bank balance i have a bank balance right but now i have a um like let's say i deposit a dollar into the bank uh i go to hsbc because i'm i'm a super simple right i'm i'm just like a total normie i go to hsbc i deposit a dollar there and the bank balance say shows a dollar but you can tokenize that dollar basically that's what you're saying right you tokenize that dollar and say okay look instead of having a receipt that says hey you have a dollar in your bank account that receipt is now worth something right that's a tradable asset now right so hsbc gives me the receipt that's what kind of what you're doing um you get a reason i deposit a dollar i get a receipt that deposit one dollar and that one dollar receipt is now tradable right and what you're talking about is obviously um because that one dollar like um going back to the kira analogy in the case of kira so i have one if i transfer that to kira kira gives me a representation of that one if maybe like ke for whatever um now i can trade that ke as if it's like a um it's a token it's a token of value so now it represents that token and what what happens with the actual token you know i could get slash can it can do all the fancy stuff but at the core of it is that i get this ke right or you know whatever you want to call it yeah okay so so so so so in that sense okay so so what is my advantage right now so so what have i gained by doing this so uh my eve is doing some work for me so i'm um am i gaining some passive um kira income is that though yes okay you are gaining passive income in terms of block rewards right which is the interest rate that the governance assigns and you're gaining an interest in terms of p rewards which are the rewards that are being generated when users interact with the network state machine smart contracts in certain cases uh so all this all those rewards in proportion to the assigned interest rates are then given to people that state those assets that the network is in particular interested in to attract and given current market conditions so this is constantly uh optimized by the governance to attract specific type of assets that bring most utility to the network most active network activity and generate most peace to attract even more people uh so the the core what are you gaining from it because you could just stake on the team right some use some other defi is that uh you can earn passive this passive income but your capital is not locked right because you can still take this derivative at any point of time liquidate it you can trade it maybe use with defis themselves so you are not losing the potential of your capital at this point and your chances of getting liquidated are close to zero it's not like a problem we're trying to have right now with with defi compound and oracle box right where you can be liquidated you will lose 90 percent of your money right like this is this is way way way way less risky for you to stake than to actually put money into let's say lending platform right but no one prevents you from doing that at that point but but can i do that can i do that though like um so i think i think we're bringing a lot of concepts into this conversation i think that's um that's kind of the power of it so i think a few things i want to just uh talk about here so um you can guess i mean if if you've been um you can guess from this that this is very powerful because by being on their own chain it's actually very different from the staking and the farming that uh we've seen in the past few months because a lot of them they're just giving out coins for free and it works with pretty much only ethereum but here they're doing cross chain and what's kind of special is that the the whole way the chain is designed is it is that it's geared to the staker so you stake and you become a validator and then you get the reward so it's like um i think there's a lot to unpack so this is kind of um the objective you know before we started this conversation i'm like okay how do we unpack all the stuff that you've done here so we're we're trying to do it in the easiest way because obviously guys you you guys know i i always look at projects i talk to the projects and um before we ever do a live interview to to know that they're legit and to know that they're doing something valuable right and with these guys like that's why my mind was so blown when i heard about this is because of just how much power there is here so moving on that discussion so basically by being on kira i'm i'm getting the block rewards from kira i'm getting the staking rewards and the interaction rewards from kira so that's number one that's the primary reason so i stake my eve i get the the the rewards of the uh validating block rewards etc so it's almost like it's almost like i can stake it on ethereum like e2.0 is staking but kira is also staking but the difference here is that kira is more fluid because you can still transfer back you can still unlock the asset whilst i guess in the sense of e2.0 you have to wait until 2021 until it's usable so that's one thing right um so the other the other thing is here is okay so once i'm on the platform i get the derivative of it what else can i do with it do you do you guys have applications i can use already or is it like are you waiting for developers to develop on kira for that yeah we have an application that we're developing um it's called the interchange protocol where you can stake and trade these assets directly so how um this um exchange will work uh it will have a hub spoke architecture so what does that mean so uh it's very similar to cosmos cosmos network where we're going to have a hub as a settlement layer where you deposit um and stake your asset and then the trading will happen on designated trading zones so that way uh trading becomes very very scalable um because there can be many different zones designated for uh you know different type of assets so that's our uh for the central application that we're trying to deploy on kira network and that's how you can use um those staking derivatives um and earn rewards from that so kind of like one of the kind of most impactful why are we going with this specific application in particular first is because uh think what happens right when uh you have a volatility on the market right imagine you staking uh ethereum 2.0 only two point out chain right and suddenly ethereum price goes exponentially high or it goes crashing down what do we'll still what the stakers usually do right they tend to unstake they want to get their money back as soon as possible right and with kira and this is the problem for every single chain right whether it's polka dot or cosmos network or it would be affinity or whatever other chain if the price will move everyone won't will want the tokens back right right so with kira you no longer have this problem right you no longer have a problem of being stuck because you know volatility changes because you can simply trade one type of state asset for another type of state asset and continuously make money from the network operations right right because the network makes money regardless oh yeah i got that i got you i got you i got you i got you so so so i think uh but but there's a counter argument here right so so we've seen this with um ethereum products too i mean um almost every exchange is giving a derivative of a product product from it right so just to look at this an example you go to the white vaults you deposit eef inside and they give you y eef right or you deposit link there um it's actually you deposit the strategy that i saw was that um you deposit your link into ava to get a link and then you deposit your a link into y vaults to get why a link right so this derivative on top of derivative products um overall right so this has already been done in ethereum right so what what makes it special and hero what um you know how do you distinguish yourself in that case first of all yes this is also a recursive process right so you can get the staking asset maybe stake it again if governance is utility for that or maybe stake it on another chain which is called leverage staking but at least that's how we call it uh but the kind of core utility right that you get from having ability to uh access the value at stake itself is to uh not be limited uh by the security of the network uh because when the problem happens when you deposit assets that don't originate from your network that's where the problem happens right the defy attract a lot of money but the money they attract originates from within the same ecosystem it doesn't originate from other ecosystem and that's where the biggest problem happens because what happens when someone deposits more money to your network than the value at stake that you have and what kira does right it self-enforces itself with every asset deposited and stake every asset deposit and stake is more means more security for the network it means more network activity it means more keywords and again the loop repeats itself so it's totally opposite to every other proof of stake network that you know so far where you deposit assets and the more assets you deposit the bigger honeypot it becomes just like a centralized exchange becomes over time a bigger and bigger honeypot until someone like cracks it open right here it's opposite every time you deposit the asset security of the network grows because every asset can be staked it's intended to be staked so that's a good answer of the on the security aspect and it's it's kind of a problem that i think a lot of people don't really think about at the start because you know uh when ethereum first grew i mean it's magical it's pure magic right now you can start programming on the blockchain now it's like a blank piece of paper for developers and programmers and bam they can create all these assets and um the whole concept of the erc20 token just exploded right so you know good examples or something like link uh you know the value just keeps growing but um you reach a point and i think this is something that a lot of people don't realize you reach a point where all the sum of all these erc20 um assets grows and grows and grows at the uh the you know and you can see that right the all coin space is growing so as it grows that means that the value of these coins can be greater than the value of the network and and that's eventually going to happen because this network like ethereum is supporting so many different coins on it don't so many different projects it's a it's a test bet it's a bet for that right but what you're saying is that the security decreases because when ethereum the the the the value of if and it's using the value of if to protect itself because the the value of the platform is greater than the value of potential the the value of all the assets on the platform can be greater than the value of the um the if on the platform itself that presents a security risk right so i think a lot of people don't think about that yeah yeah that's one point another point is that it can originate from another network yes correct so and that's the biggest problem i guess that's true that's true so so so so so cross chain as well so when you're combining compounding these two issues so native assets and then cross chain assets like basically bringing bitcoin onto ethereum now these wrapped wrapped bitcoin assets will be super valuable so if that happens then ethereum security is potentially at risk because people want to um potentially um people have more financial incentive to attack the network and and and just to just to go on this as it's kind of a joke right so we have a lot of traders um i have a lot of trader friends and uh they make huge transactions and they make huge trades and they're like okay maybe we should just buy a mining pool like so then we can like reverse even just one block on ethereum and reverse that transaction that would mean a very powerful or not even just reverse a transaction just place a transaction ahead of someone and i cause someone to um uh cause someone's transaction to fail that that would be a very power plate right if you can kind of real um even just have a little bit of priority on your transaction when especially when it comes to trading uh it could be make or break so yet again it goes back to the idea of security and by what you guys are implementing which is allowing every coin to be crossed crossed into kira and then using that coin to also stake on the network that becomes the power right that gives everyone that that gives a much better representation of all of the the staking on the platform and gives it a lot more security yeah that's kind of holy trinity of blockchain right you the consensus itself is used for both securing the network and inducing network activity and attracting more more people to come in but obviously there has to be a human element that observes the market and understands the market so it's not a dumb algorithm that says okay supply is this and hundred years from now it will be that so hodl and that's it right no it doesn't work like that that doesn't give you an edge on extremely competitive crypto market uh this system is actually actively managed by the by the governance system it has to uh constantly observe and see what are the current market trends and based on the market trends besides okay we need this asset let's bring it in right and when it's coming in that's what generates you revenue and rewards that's what incentivize the governance itself to be more better and better at this process uh i just have a few comments coming in it's like rux rux uh 729 says fml this is a bit complicated it is a bit complicated but if you think about it i think like it's about wrapping your head around it like um realizing what's happening and then taking the next step so i really um it's really cool to have to talk to these guys because they really did take the next step to understand okay what what what are the trends that we're seeing because uh one of the biggest trends i would say with defy is with staking right the ability for us to stake a coin and get some rewards back and this is um this is becoming something that's kind of core right it is decentralized finance you're essentially acting as a bank right and um it's replacing a lot of these financial services and more and more people are building on top of that so you kind of have to have a more and more secure foundation for that i think that's the core i think that's the core behind why like i'm interested in this is because it's really about making sure that the infrastructure that we have um is secure enough and the the incentives are there for us to take the next progression i've been talking about you know um my classic thing is i go down to hong kong the harbour side i'm like oh look at all those banks over there right eventually we need to have infrastructure to to to replace them and i guess it is in a way complicated to to to do this but i think there's a lot of also innovation here which is why we're talking but i think going beyond this okay so let's zoom out a little bit um on the perspective okay so you guys are a new chain all right so you um it's not ethereum all right you guys are providing a new chain um i think one of the biggest issues that we've been seeing is just getting developers and building that ecosystem out so you know how do you how do you want to entice developers to come into this chain and you know uh make them develop and create a good ecosystem so first of all right our goal first goal is to achieve self-sustainability and that means that network can achieve net positive return and once the network can achieve net positive return it will have ability to hire its own developers to incentivize building certain certain platforms right like let's look what's going on let's say with development of volcadot and developing cosmos the finity all the new kind of ex-billion dollar chains out there right it's not people coming in because something is interesting it's a foundation dropping money on them right or not right then they don't come uh to develop something right if they don't drop money they will simply not come they will go to other platforms that drops money on them and that's how it usually works so in kira case you know the network itself first has to arrive to the point right that the network can subsustain itself and that's why we are building the core utility apps that actually can attract people can bring money in and create this positive feedback group so there's capital in the community pool for the governance to spend and once the governance can spend the money that's where really kind of the network can blow up and scale and because the value at stake accumulates over time and remains liquid all those new defy apps that you build on top defy or financial apps or and other type of apps that need a lot of access to the capital that's where where the power comes from but this this is kind of the gradual process it's not like day one to to to to to the last day right it has to be gradual process to arrive there and a how this is achieved right now how we are trying to achieve this is through the concept that we call on-chain contract and the country contracting concept is very similar to really real life agreements right where employer which can be governance or can be any user deposits assets and signs an agreement with another party and specifies the spec and say let's say this is a pay right and this is a pay which is dropping to you every couple of blocks and this is your job you have to log your job uh say once a week and present your results and you're constantly getting paid from from contract if you close this want to a close the contract then you have let's say 15 days uh leave period and so on so this kind of concept like the pcal uh employment agreements we want to bring on chain and that's how we want to allow governance to utilize the committee pool to actually incentivize development on chain we want to also do this for our own company so we don't want to have any single kind of party being in full control of the development process the code should be also on chain it should be possible to modify that work on chain and that's the goal not to have a single pantry controlling it but actually have a decentralized network taking control but that's another wider topic you know how to achieve the governance that actually works yeah and i think it's very much a chicken and egg argument right like how how do you get people and i think that's one of the biggest powers of eith but i think you brought up two things here like um you know the the combining like being able to combine to a lot of ecosystems together that's um pretty good and that means if everyone just comes together on kira that also means that there's a lot of derivative coins on your kira to be able to be used in d5 so i think that's a that's actually an interesting way to go so switching gears a a little bit as well so um okay going there at this current point what's the status of the network how's everything going like um i guess you know like where are we at right now for the network so right now we are a few weeks away from the testnet our guys are building deployment scripts because we don't want people to actually type every single command and then try to build up their create their own script for deployment we've seen how painful it is and many other networks our goal is for people to be able to a host the nodes at home right if as long as they have fast enough internet connection not not in cloud environment so we are preparing scripts so that is possible also the network is designed to make that possible uh that's that's number one point for us most important uh from there uh after month of the uninterrupted operations we'll be able to launch the magnets on the magnet uh from the modules that are already completed are uh so so so how long do you expect that the first phase to be where you kind of just test um that with and and you know um how easy is is it to run like can anyone run it like i've been running nodes recently so like you know can i just like you know um click a button on my linux uh server and and go for it it'd be more like copy a command like more like copy a command press a button and then it will tell you okay do you want to set that set it up with the key that you already have or you want to set up a new validation script so so so so long as anyone has a server um you're trying to build an installation script for it and then get the network up and then start uh running the network right correct got it got it got it okay and then and then it's going to be mainnet stage cool cool cool after a month after a month after a month of uninterrupted operations we'll start on the mainnet like during the test that we want to mostly engage with the governance because the governance small module in kia is is is very interesting i don't know if we have time sure but it's it's it's a really cool cool cool process that allows to scale the operations of the governance system in typical kind of cryptocurrency right you usually have people that uh okay they hold the token and the more tokens they have the kind of more voting power they have and it's very kind of hard to arrive to arrive to the consensus usually like three five ten people maybe votes out of them maybe to control the supply and that's kind of how the how the how the governance looks on chain like in terms of kira like we turning this concept up and top to bottom uh because uh first of all we don't use plutocratic approaches with kia there is no kind of relation between amount of tokens you have and voting power you have that because that's extremely dangerous if someone uh let's say centralized exchanges right to steal your coin or someone stole the coins from there or uh just using them without your permission right then they can influence the consensus that should not be possible it should also not be possible for any actor to join the network just because they have money because it doesn't mean that they are rational actors right there's difference between the actual non-actors and rational actors people have many different facts and they can do many different things with the assets they have so kira utilizes a concept of a governance permission governance set and governance permission validators it means that you actually have to be part of community to be part of the consensus to be part of the governance you have to engage with community they have to let you know so so is that permission system so the community committee committee decides who to be uh who to allow in the system right so it's kind of a permission and decide the rules themselves so they decide what are the rules maybe it's amount of tokens maybe it's certain uh things that you do for the network maybe you have to join the stand-ups every month right and you know say what you did or you know engage with proposals that has to be requirements for you to join and it's not going to be the same for every single person so the governance itself can decide define your role right within the network whether you're validator governance member and what kind of permissions you have so the governance can define okay that you have a permission uh to send the transaction that allow will allow you to become a validator maybe vote on specific proposal or maybe engage in a certain discussion regarding creation of code of conduct or maybe other functionality and this is what allows you to to shard the governance system itself by using roles and permissions role is a package permission set of permissions that you can assign to the account this allows you to create multiple governance bodies that can let's say work in a system like you have in us right check and balances right which is the most kind of popular way of making governance system work right making sure that no single body of the governance system has absolute power over any other so this all this can be implemented and this can be done with just two extremely simple rules on chain that only accounts that have permission to be governance accounts can be them and they can only vote on proposals and propose proposal that they have permission to propose and this allows to build extremely extremely comprehensive system with very very simple rules so it sounds very kind of complex but at the at the core of it it's it's extremely very simple it's kind of cool i mean this is the reason why i got into cura because like you can definitely see matthews is very passionate and he's he's obviously thought a lot about how governance should work and these are like the core problems being um tackled in the whole cryptocurrency ecosystem right the issues of governance how do you prevent an exchange from dominating the coin and we saw that with eos like at the start you know like the eos 21 knows like oh hobby's one okay finance is one okay great so i mean all of this has been and i think that these are problems that would um uh um hero has taken an approach to tackle and i think that makes sense right that that does actually and it's kind of funny like how much people think about this so i think like um and you guys know i'm probably reading chat as well that's why i'm like half breaking up like uh but guys by the way guys um just a note as well you can guys check out the live chat during there um and just everyone who's watching guys if you guys have questions about cura about um how this governance works and how um kind of uh staking works and how all of this fits together please do shoot a question um as we're kind of like all kind of into this kind of question and answer zone um um so uh uh i'm definitely prompted to ask milana a question so um you know so uh milana on your side as well so okay so so where do you see this going kind of going so as ceo what's kind of your role right now like to bring in more people to bring in the network how do you what's your plan to grow the whole kira uh kira um you know the plan is to bring more projects um either adapting and using our consensus the multi-bonded proof of stake uh or just projects inter interconnecting with us and that they can get access to any market in the ecosystem so you know like we've partnered with um with a couple of projects already um you know some nft projects uh projects that have uh uh decentralized governance and so on so you know like it really depends um so how do you work with people like do you do you approach projects your projects approach you like you know do they have to give you permission to allow them to bridge over or is that like you know magic um yeah you know like it's not um it's not like the same uh case by case like sometimes we approach projects that we think would be a good fit um you know sometimes project approach us any any good projects you can you know key us on what's what you guys are partnering with well you know we'll be we'll be making um a couple of announcements in the future in terms of our integration uh but right now we cannot um you know expose anything uh too prematurely got it got it so so so keep keep so keep watching guys keep watching media medium read their mediums all right media mediums that's that's the key she knows what's she knows what's up all right okay so so all right so everyone's asking when launch when launch i think they answered that already so i think the one to pay attention to is to run your own code they have one month of uh getting the public to run code and i think that's a great time to participate especially if you guys have um been you know experimenting with your own servers etc i think that's the a good way to do it um okay so guys more questions more questions coming up so what we'll do for this interview is we'll do some more q a and then we will uh start wrapping things up it's uh it's been um a really great interview it's very insightful and i think that's the like the hard part about all this is that it's it's very very deep into d5 right like i think that's the you know i'll be honest like you know when i was reading this up you know before chatting to these guys i was so confused i was like what are you guys trying to do what are these derivatives what i was trying to do but but the the core is very simple right the core is that you can move coins to their platform and to to the to the network so um crossing from ethereum to uh kira is super simple um there's so many ways to do so now and that's the whole point not just with ethereum but with bitcoin litecoin whatever coin you want cross over to that network not only are you getting rewards but you're also securing up the network you're you're pretty much uh part of securing a network which is kind of crazy and also that enables you to get also a uh a derivative product on kira which can trade and give more flexibility to and i think that's kind of the key here which is like um yeah being able to cross the chain and getting um rewarded for it so um anyways um looking at the comments um so i had i had crypto wolf so uh welcome wolf um by the way guys um wolf has done a really great ama on his channel as well i want to give a big shout out if you guys want to learn a bit more in like in written form um i read that prior to coming here it was very very insightful um especially with what's happening so wolf welcome and wolf also say you know uh making a protocol is hard exactly it is hard but this year we've seen you know polka dot which is super super hot especially in china especially in asia over here and you know this is um it's about building the foundation and we know that the future is not just one single ecosystem it is multiple ecosystem and that's great so anyways guys we'll do questions we'll do questions um uh so yeah so so no no nda so she said um so people are commenting about ndas with projects but um i'll definitely hope to see some cool stuff so angela says angela says nda protected i guess with future partnerships um okay let's see what else we have um i i guess i i guess okay one thing here so uh taking this current market right um you know let's enter let's exit the the kira stage and take the whole market as a whole uh what's your take on this guys um you know bitcoin really recently shut up ethereum recently um moved we had a little bit of a dump are you guys concerned about this recent dump um in crypto are you guys um you know bullish as ever what's your thoughts like my thoughts are that us is printing money so this money is flowing into stocks and probably now overflowing into crypto but because we have you know like we have right now like perfect conditions for which bitcoin was actually designed for the first time right like why did the bitcoin start right between start because we had a financial crisis in in 2008-9 right so this is what spawned the bitcoin right trend and now is the time actually where uh where we see for the first time where where the bitcoin will be in the environment that it was designed for so it's very exciting times to see what's going to happen yeah i think i think you take you take the the og route right uh you know you've been here for a long time and i think like people were freaked out yesterday about the coinbase thing right because like everyone was like oh maybe coinbase is trying to tell us something you know hint hint i can't i can't wink but you know hint hint maybe they're trying to tell us something maybe this uh they're trying to front run those new regulations coming in the us that was causing the fear right but i think if any of us ogs we've been here for such a long time um you know uh yeah it's like so what right i think this is the the saddest part um also by the way big kudos for our milana it's 7 a.m over there that's that's crazy that's crazy sorry about that sorry that that timing oh that's that's actually technically my bad like this is my usual stream time but i totally forgot that it's like so you had to stay up for this right yeah like i completely blacked out i'm like wait why did i approve this timing i don't know i don't know i i totally forgot like um yeah so i think we could have done it anyways we'll we'll catch up um um sometime um more about this project once it's launched i think one one thing i'll definitely do is try to try it uh i have a reputation of just trying everything i touch so i you know i've recently been running the if2 validator nodes um and you know that's been fun so hopefully we can have an experience on that if you guys are interested definitely check out their medium definitely take out the network and i'm very very excited to see what's going to happen next with kira as well once once the deposit starts rolling in i think that's when the excitement really starts but definitely so okay so yeah so we have a hard-working ceo of the year definitely thank you so much for that thank you so much for that yeah um it's hard as as international um having a very international community here it's uh it's it's crazy so i think let's wrap this interview up i think we we covered probably a lot of the key points and i think for for my personal take from this right my personal take i think it does sound complicated at the get-go um you know all this liquidity and derivatives but it's it's really simple it's really simple it's really providing that infrastructure we're building defy we want to see d5 banks pop up we want to see that kind of replacement for the traditional financial institution and kira really does provide a way to kind of get everyone to combine together to come together i think that's that's very powerful basic cross-chain whether you're ethereum you got ethereum or usd or uh not usd not usd usdt or uh bitcoin or litecoin or whatnot or polka dot projects bridging that together and having a foundation to build d5 with so i think that's my take home from this guy so guys thank you guys so much for watching and thank you so much for coming here thank you milano for being up till 7 a.m for this um really really um had a great talk with you guys guys guys thank you guys so much for this session you you