Are the Bulls REALLY back @ Asia Blockchain Summit 2019

So it's always a little bit weird doing an intro at the end of a conference, but that's what we're doing here. So guys, welcome to this channel, special episode. We're at, in Taiwan, Taipei, at the Asia Blockchain Summit. So I decided to come to the summit pretty much very last minute because I really want to see what's happening on the offline space. Because we saw the market soar for the past week or so. Bitcoin crossed $10,000, went beyond to $14,000. And then we're cooling off a little bit. But what I really want to see is that, is there a fundamental interest in Bitcoin and other blockchain projects right now? Because at the end of the day, offline world, like these conferences, they show us a lot about who's in this space. What are they talking about? What are they invested in? Are they new, old, new money, new blood? Or is it just the same old guy? So I'm here at this conference trying to figure out what's really happening in the blockchain space. I also got a few really cool interviews for this episode. So we got, from both extremes, we got Samsung Mo, who is the CSO of Blockstream. We've got Chinese media coming in. Pretty packed with a lot of really cool interviews that I pretty much just did the whole day today. So I hope you guys really enjoyed this episode. It really reveals a lot about what's happening in the cryptocurrency space. I asked people some really weird questions about what they think. Are we in a bull market or not? Or are we going to crash to $3,000? And, well, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Today we have Mia. She's from China. And just to ask, what have you been doing in China for the past? You said you were in the blockchain space since 2011, right? Actually, no. If it's 2011, I will be old. Really old. So my name is Mia from ABC.com. So ABC.com is like one of the oldest and most influential blockchain media in China. And I think it's only one survived since 2011. So we are basically a media and also other kind of parts like map pool is like mining. Right. Mining pool. You have a mining pool. Yeah. You have media. Yeah. You have... We have a wallet. You have a wallet? Yeah, we do. So we have online wallet and also co-wallet. Yeah. So something that we've seen in the Western space is that there's this fear that China's banned Bitcoin. It's banned mining. So are you guys able to continue operations as normal? Can you still mine in China? And can you still cover cryptocurrencies? Yeah. I think it's kind of exaggerating, actually. Chinese regulation is not as scary as people think. So basically media is totally fine first. And the other part kind of exchange may be kind of dangerous. So there's not that much Chinese exchange in China right now. Basically in Chinese domain, there is not that much. But also mining, I think, is fine. So it's fine. Yeah. So nothing's banned. So the mining pool continues to run. Yeah. Now you said that media, you're one of the surviving ones since 2011. So what killed off other Chinese media outlets then? So it's basically the 2014 and 2015. It's bear market. It's bear market. So they didn't survive from that part, from that circle. So I think that's the most reason. So it's mostly the bear market. It's just money. Yeah. So not enough money kills people. Yeah. Right, right, right. Okay. So now in terms of coverage, are you allowed to talk about different cryptocurrencies on your media? What currencies do you talk about? Yes, we do. We talk a lot of cryptocurrencies. If we focus on technology, that's totally fine. Right, right. But about the price. No price. Not that serious, actually. We can talk about the price as well. So it's not as scary as you think. So you're welcome to China. Come to China. Yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so you still have a certain amount of freedom. You can operate. So what are you doing now in Taiwan? What's your main objective here? So basically I came to Taiwan this time is to interview all of the guests I want to interview, like Charlie, like Arthur, like CZ and stuff. Right, right, right. I made an appointment with them already. Oh, awesome. That's great. So you're trying to get as much coverage in the Chinese media space for everyone. So you talked about Charlie. Are you still excited about Litecoin? Are you looking forward to various different cryptocurrencies as well? Sure. Actually, I love that. Sorry, Charlie. Because I have interviewed him already last time. So he's very nice. And thank you, Charlie, for accepting this kind of interview. So about Litecoin, I think people in Chinese market really thrilled about Litecoin because the price thrived in this cycle. Okay, so what about our famous guy back there? We have Justin Sun from Trons Posters Everywhere. What do you think about Justin Sun? It's a little sorry. I hate this drama. Because I came to this kind of blockchain ring in 2017. At that time, it's still, the Chinese market is still good. And there is no Chinese ban and stuff. I met Justin in, I think, September 2017. Right. And Batman. They are not. He's not as famous or as valued as nowadays. So, yeah. That's interesting. Okay. But do you think Chinese people are generally interested in Tron? Are Chinese people generally interested in Tron? Or is it more for Western audiences now? I think there is a problem about the whole, I think, the blockchain lovers is that they think the blockchain project value depends on the price. So, the price source, they think this is a good project. I think that's our key problem. So, a lot of people live in Tron kind of stuff because it's because of the price. Yeah. So, but that's the first. But later, they have the money and then they build a good team. So, who knows what will happen in the future. So, let's see. So, we're here with Leo from MachiX. You've been in Taiwan for some time, but you also have some international experience. So, what do you see the scene differences are like? So, you came from the US. You're here in Asia. Do you see any differences in mentality and in style? Yeah. I think it's great here. Everybody's really getting into it. Not just the tech, but let's all really be honest here. I mean, it is a huge financial revolution. And a lot of people here think that this is going to create generational wealth or at the least some kind of shift in economic distribution globally. And so, here in Taiwan, people are very realistic. How do we make money? But also, how do we make sure that we, as we talk about regulatory landscape here, I just came out of this talk where a professor from Singapore, I forget that gentleman's name, talking about what kind of, how do they evaluate regulatory frameworks as it relates to Bitcoin and blockchain. And just after that, Congressman Jason Hsu was also on stage talking about the latest STO regulation that was released by the FSC, which is the SEC of Taiwan, on June 27th. Very exciting. The highlights, basically, each person can contribute up to $10,000 US per project. And each project can raise up to $1 million without, with it being unregistered. Anything over $1 million requires a financial sandbox thing. Even though the numbers aren't super exciting for a lot of the people here in Taiwan, because $1 million, you're not really going to be able to fundraise a lot from fun to real project, really. But it's a good start. It's not perfect. But I also think that the Taiwanese regulators have to be smart about how much they kind of give in without risking not protecting the interests of the individual investors. Right. That actually sounds like rolling out the red carpet. Because, like, in the US, it's all about, like, ambiguity, right? Like, we're not going to see if this is a security or not. You know, like, it's in the middle. But here, Taiwan seems to be more welcoming. They seem to be at least acknowledging what's happening in this space. Yeah. And I think we're taking great steps here in Taiwan. Not that I want to speak on behalf of Taiwan, but I should back it up a little bit. I was at ConsenSys in New York. And I had the honor of taking a selfie with Hester Pierce, the SEC Congress, I'm sorry, commissioner, who's very pro-crypto. Crypto mom. She's awesome. And it's funny. We had this conversation. She says, like, oh, we had a discussion about our talk. She's like, hey, thank you for working on this thing. I really think we in the US need this. Oh, and by the way, I did just move out of the jurisdiction of the US. And she asked me, well, where'd you go? I said, I went to Taiwan. I was like, ah, okay, okay. And I told her, look, I would love to come back to the States. But for now, I need to do my work outside of the States. And I hope that, you know, the SEC does, in fact, quickly come up with good guidance. But besides that, when you think about it, here in Taiwan, the guidance isn't helpful. But I do think the next step to put Taiwan on par with Gibraltar and Malta is to be able to say things like, here's what you can do. Here's what you can't do. And I think the first step is, in fact, this STO regulatory announcement, you know, laying out what can and cannot be allowed. And the FSC is very open to hearing new industry input as to what changes can be done to continue to put Taiwan on the spot. And I am all in on Jason Su and his Blockchain Island crypto, Republic of Crypto Vision. That's awesome. Yeah. So now you're talking about the stuff that you're working on Taiwan. So what are you working on right now? So MachiX, we're tokenizing intellectual property. So, you know, there's also been talks before and other attempts have been tried where people are tokenizing celebrities. But what does that really mean? What do you get for a celebrity token? If Michael had a token, what do I get with a Michael token? That's why there's no Michael token. I mean, hey, I don't know, maybe you can issue one. But what we're doing is we're actually taking something tangible. Much like the fact that stable coins have a natural dollar value attached to each coin, our MachiX IP tokens, copyright tokens, have behind it copyright for each of the songs. So, for example, Stanley Huang, who is a Golden Melody male artist, it was equivalent to the Grammys in the U.S. So he won the best male artist, I think, a few years ago. And his pop song, Ying Lang, his hit song, is actually trading on MachiX. And so fans can actually buy and own a piece of his copyright, own a piece of his art. So a lot of people here, when they sing karaoke, they love to sing that song. And they go, yeah, man, I own that song. I own a piece of it. And that's awesome. So we're building a platform for people to buy and also possibly sell it or if you want. And also tokens of his copyright. And then also for fans that better interact with artists if they want that. So Nikki Lee, one of our other artists, who has been leaving messages on MachiX.com for the fans who own his song tokens. And I think that's going to create a brand new way of interaction. And we're doing something nobody's done before. Very excited about it. All right. I'm here with Henry from Taiwan. You're a developer. And you're loving this crypto space. Definitely. I think Taipei or Taiwan is a great place for crypto development. Okay. So development-wise, I've always had this conundrum, right? So as a developer, you kind of want a stable environment to move in. But with crypto crisis going up and down and fluctuating like this, do you find it hard to focus on developing sometimes? Definitely. If you focus on one project, maybe a few months later, there's a better project coming up. So it's a tough thing for a developer right now. So do you develop a particular change in particular? Are there things you're looking forward to? Well, Ethereum. Solidity. So that's what I've been focusing on. But I know there's Polkadot and Cosmos, all those newer, faster blockchain. So yeah, definitely we'll look into that one. Okay. So in that respect, do you find it hard now to concentrate with so much noise out there? And also, I think there's a lot of money also. Each of these foundations now have a lot of money. So do you think that's a good target for you now? Well, it's kind of confusing. So I personally will just buy Bitcoin. I think it's the safest bet. Right. Right. Yeah. But for a developer, also you have to try all the different chains. So it is tough. So are you more proof of work or proof of stake? Man. That's like the hardest question. I got asked this morning. Okay. I got asked this this morning and then I had to kind of diffuse it. Well, I'm more of a proof of stake because it uses less energy. Right. Yeah. But I'm also looking for other, you know, type of mining algorithm. I heard there's a proof of capacity and then definitely I think there's, you know, it's going to improve. So yeah, the best one will. From an energy perspective, you're like, okay, proof of stake, safest. But yeah, the amount of energy burnt, it's pretty intense. Okay. So you're making a DApp. You're moving into the DApp space. Why do you want to actually build decentralized applications or build anything on Ethereum? Well, I just love the platform. You know, you can store value on the blockchain. And yeah, I think it's the Web 3.0. Definitely it's going to change the old infrastructure. All right. So this is going to be one of the weirdest and most interesting interviews I think I'm going to do today. So Samson and I, we've known each other for quite a long time in the gaming space before blockchain, but now he's the chief head designer of Blockstream, also the chief strategy officer. That's your more formal title. So I'm in charge of strategy at Blockstream. That includes a lot of different things. I head up product, business and marketing and whatever else needs to get done. And yes, I do take credit for maximizing you a little bit over to Bitcoin from the early days, right? Yes. So let's go get your story a little bit. I mean, you were in video games before this. What made you go into the whole blockchain Bitcoin space? Well, I kind of got into it when I joined BTC China. So I've been following Bitcoin since 2013, 2014. But it wasn't until I actually joined BTCC that I really, really got into it and I guess started getting known for being a Bitcoiner. Right. And now you're, you went from Chinese Bitcoin space. I think that's a whole story in itself. We won't cover that too right now, which is we've seen this huge rise in Bitcoin, but we've also seen a lot of kind of like breaking up of the community and stuff. So what makes you excited in this space? What do you love about this space? Let's talk about your passion first. What made you really say, look, I want to be fully into, you know, doing Bitcoin stuff? So I guess the biggest driver for me is to be able to really work on something that's going to change the world. I think Bitcoin is a transformative technology that can have a profound impact on just what we see as money and how we transact with one another without a need for a trusted third party intermediary. So being from the game industry, we've seen digital money or virtual money evolve and grow over time, but nothing kind of compares to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is in a league in and of itself and that it's not controlled by any one party. It's decentralized and no one can control it. And I guess what you're asking earlier, the more interesting part of it is just watching people try to control Bitcoin and fail time and time again. And that's fun for me, I think. So you're kind of like, you love to see people try to attack Bitcoin. That's, you're like, hey. I like it, but people do attack. So you get to watch it and then I guess enjoy the schadenfreude. Nice. Okay. So we have this formation of a decentralized system, but we also have a lot of coins. So you're responsible for a lot of the maximalism in me. So what makes Bitcoin more special in your mind than any other thing? Why is everything else bad? Do you view it as everything else is bad? It depends. I think there's a lot of scamming projects out there. There's a lot of really scamming ICOs also. In terms of cryptocurrencies, so I would differentiate between a token project and a cryptocurrency. A cryptocurrency has to be censorship resistant in some way and it should be fair. So I would say like things like Litecoin or Monero, proof of work based coins that are probably fair, didn't have a pre-mine, are legitimate things that can and should exist. And it's likely they will. But Bitcoin is kind of in and of itself because it is, it had a virgin birth, right? It's the first cryptocurrency and it had this organic growth and traction. Whereas a lot of other projects, they kind of have a team behind it or a company slash foundation creating it, pumping it and managing it. And for me, that's almost the same as a game currency, right? You have World of Warcraft and World of Warcraft Gold, but that's Blizzard behind it managing that economy. And I think it's the same for a lot of the other kind of crypto projects out there or token projects. Right. Okay. Now, beyond the scammy projects, we have one of the biggest attacks on Bitcoin is this ability to scale, right? So we saw issues of scaling and really expensive Bitcoin transactions. So where do you see that going? Like where do you see, how do you see us solving that scalability problem? So I think there is not really a scalability problem. It's impossible for everyone in the world to use Bitcoin and transact it instantly and freely. It just doesn't work that way because it is a blockchain. You have to put your transactions in a block, broadcast the block, and you're expending massive amounts of electricity mining and securing the chain. So it's not going to be possible for everyone in the world to use Bitcoin cheaply and freely. That's what the Lightning Network is for Bitcoin. And that is the scaling solution, I think, along with other layer two scaling tech like Liquid, where you're taking transactions off chain into a separate ecosystem that is like for Liquid is for traders. But you can also have a side chain for, say, merchants or any other tailor-made purpose. But it's impossible for everyone to be able to have a next block transaction in Bitcoin if any significant amount of the world population decides to use Bitcoin. Right. Right. Right. So the way you see it is that you see that the technology is going to solve all the back-end problems. People aren't going to worry about the front-end problems. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's like back in the day when you had dial-up, right? You have to actually dial a number. You might get a busy tone and your BBS or whatever might have a few numbers and you have to call the other numbers, right? But nowadays, you're just constantly connected all the time through broadband or LTE or whatever. So it's still, people have to understand that for Bitcoin and even for Lightning, it's still very early on in all the protocol development. So now, last question on this side. Now, Blockstream has taken a lot of crap recently for saying, look, these are the guys who are, I'm just going to say it, whatever, right? People who are behind or controlling a lot of, swinging a lot of those decisions behind what Bitcoin Core is doing. So is that true in your mind or how does Blockstream defend themselves from that? Well, it's kind of hard to defend against conspiracy theories, right? So I think a lot of the misunderstanding just comes down to people not understanding how open source development works. They're accustomed to, you know, closed source projects or projects launched by a company or a team. And then that company or team is actually controlling all the development. But for an open source project, anyone can contribute. And it is a meritocracy whereby you make a, you write a proposal for Bitcoin, it's a bit. People will review it and if they think it's good, they'll give you an act. And then, you know, someone will go off and code it. And there's no exact roadmap of who's working on what and in which order it'll get merged. But everyone works on what they want to work on. And as things get finished, they kind of bubble up and merge into the main branch and get released. But it is a process by people actually looking at your code and reviewing it. It's not like some guy says, okay, we'll add this feature. If anyone tried to maliciously merge something, other developers and contributors would just say, no, that's not going in and it'll get removed. Right. So what you're saying is that open source, it's still, it's Bitcoin's open sourced and we need to start to understand how it works better. But the biggest problem I see also is that, and someone pointed this out to us earlier, is that with more and more altcoins coming into play, more developers leaving the Bitcoin ecosystem and just going to do their own projects. Do you see a talent drain in Bitcoin development? Not really. I mean, there's always an incentive to go and make your own project, right? You can work on Bitcoin full time, but no, well, some people might sponsor you, but in general, you don't get paid. Like there's no foundation paying you a salary. You can make your own shitcoin for millions of dollars, right? Yeah. Economically speaking, if you're a talented engineer, why don't you do that instead of doing open source? Yeah. But we do have a critical mass of developers on Bitcoin and it's just people that believe in the potential of Bitcoin and want to help it succeed. So you do have constantly new developers coming in to work on Bitcoin, either through some sponsorship or just through volunteering their own time. But, you know, a lot of the other altcoin projects probably won't have that. That's why, you know, you might be a talented guy. You might have worked on Bitcoin at some point and then you use your reputation to go and launch an alt and you can cash out that way. But are people going to join you and work on your project? It's hard to say. All right. So that's the Maximus. We've got the Maximus section. And I feel like, no, we had to say it. And also I feel like this channel is leading towards like broad everything. And I feel it's good to include Samson here and especially from your viewpoint as well. So, okay, as we're talking about Bitcoin, I want to talk about two topics. One is Facebook Libra. That seems like the hottest topic. And then we also want to talk a little bit about gaming as well because we've got gaming backgrounds. So let's do Libra first. What do you see in that? Do you see any good in that? I think Libra is just a stable coin backed by a large tech consortium. And there's good and bad to it. I think they're using the cryptocurrency or even the blockchain marketing terminology to market themselves. But I think there is no blockchain behind Libra. I read some of their technical docs and there's like no blockchain. It's not really a cryptocurrency. I would say the definition of cryptocurrency is that you have to, anyone should be able to mine it. And there should be no way for anyone to censor a transaction. But it looks like Libra is going to be using KYC wallets. And they said like down the road, we're going to decentralize. But the way they've structured it right now, it doesn't look like they'll ever become decentralized because you have a $10 million validator nodes and this massive tech consortium. And they have like a big bullseye painted on them for regulators to go after them because it's being led by Facebook, which is not exactly the poster child for privacy or even doing the right thing in the tech space. So they have a lot of challenges. But the good thing is I guess people will learn about cryptocurrency and a subset of those people will learn about Bitcoin, which is the part I think is going to matter. I think that's the interesting part here. But even in terms of design, it's just, I think it's very much like two-thirds majority that they can vote and that's it, right? There's no room for any permissionless joining of the network. That's the biggest issue of Facebook anyways. But I think it will introduce people. I think the Western community really needs some sort of like currency transactions that's on messaging apps. Like WeChat is like leaps and bounds ahead. So it's trying to tackle that problem. So we'll see how it goes. That's what I was comparing it to. It's kind of like a clone of WeChat Pay or Alipay. But marketed as a crypto because that's what's hot right now. All right. Now let's go straight into gaming. So you've been in the gaming space for a long time. That's your background. In fact, Excellion is the game engine. It's actually a Lineage 2 character. Then there's a game engine. Oh, right, right, right. Okay. So now I know the full history. So it's excellent. So you've been doing game design for a while. You're making your own game whilst working on CSO Blockstream. Do you see crypto gaming as something that could be hot or something that could grab gamers onto crypto? I think there's definitely a lot of potential. But the challenge is for someone to make a good game that is utilizing a cryptocurrency. So if you take Blizzard, for example, or even EA, they're probably not going to go that route. I think Ubisoft has some blockchain gaming initiative, but they're like... That's so weird. Yeah. It's just like some guy. And I think he just got Greenlight approval for doing something. But we'll see. But a successful, massively popular game, integrating a cryptocurrency is not something the big players are going to do. So I think it's got to be someone that understands the crypto space that goes and does it. And the key is to make a good game first. Not to make something around a cryptocurrency. But the game itself has got to be good. There's like... You know, CryptoKitties, they kind of put the crypto at the heart of it, right? And the user experience is horrible because it's like, go download MetaMask, go do this, go buy some Ether, and then you can kind of trade these things, right? And there's not much gameplay around it. And I know those guys have been trying to hire some game devs in Vancouver. But a lot of game devs don't want to touch that stuff because it's not that interesting. But the project that I'm working on, Infinite Fleet, our main focus is exactly that. We want to make a great game first. So it's an MMORTS or strategy game. The genre is kind of in flux right now because we're changing the camera. But I'm hiring all the game dev veterans. So we've got guys from Relic. We've got Jason Lee. He was the lead designer of Age of Empires 4. He just left that to join us. We've got Damon Gauthier. He's one of the original Homeworld designers. We've got some guys from EVE Online. We've got like a really solid OG team. And I think we can do this. All right, cool. I'm here with Paul. You do a lot of crypto trading. So can you tell me what crypto trading for you is about? Okay, so we do crypto trading futures. Of course, I don't recommend anyone to trade with 100 leverage. So you should do crypto trading on largest exchanges. I would recommend Binance, BitMEX, Huobi. And you know, like small exchanges are too risky to trade. So you should go for a token that have the highest liquidity possible and stay away from pump and dump shit. All right, so you do crypto trading. How much do you trade on a daily basis? Or, you know, like how much money do you handle? Well, you know, it depends. We have our own funds. We have several big investors. So in total, I would say like a few hundreds of BTC under management now and then. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But it depends. And we also, but we've got a lot of experience trading on NASDAQ and the New York Stock Exchange before cryptocurrency. So we are experienced and we are not only trade cryptocurrency. Okay. So now we had this insane run-up. All right. So everyone's excited. We see more activity coming to these conferences. Again, what's your outlook right now? Do you think that we're going back into the bull market? Or do you think we're going to dump all the way back to 3,000? Yeah. Yeah. Very good and tough question. Well, long term. In long term, of course, we are going up. So no doubt about that. The industry is evolving. New players joining the space. You know, Yahoo, Facebook launching their own coins. So the long term perspective is the market is bullish. Well, in short term, like next few months, well, nobody knows. Being honest, nobody knows. I'm positive. I'm a hodler. Well, some of my friends, they go that BDC can go down up to around 7 or 8,000 because there is quite strong resistance level at this stage. But who knows? Who knows at the same point? So for you, you're trading, but you're also hodling a certain portion as well. And you generally trade with the bigger cryptocurrencies. What's your purpose of coming to this conference then? Well, I'm doing business development for HyperQuant, and I'm a co-founder. So I'm looking to make more partnerships with exchanges because our platform, we're not building our own exchange. Our platform is connected to many exchanges, and there are very interesting projects, and we can help them with volume. There are exchanges, and we're looking to integrate to the API and probably provide them some risk management, liquidity, some interesting stuff. So I'm here to make some great projects and people in blockchain industry. And offline is the best way to approach people when you see that you're real, they're real. So offline is still the best way to make new friends. All right, so we got Clement from Genesis Block from Hong Kong representing. So do Clement. Markets moved a lot recently. So what do you see in this global front, especially a China front? So we've been doing a lot of USDT in Hong Kong, China. We're finding out that a lot of money exchanges that are operating in Hong Kong, China, they've discovered what USDT is. And they've been, most of them have been circulating around and a lot more flow. That's why we're seeing like, even though the dump has happened, so traditionally, like BTC goes down, USDT value is now at like 0.98. However, in China, it's still at a premium of like 1.02. So you do the math, like there's a 4% spread. So what you're saying is that right now we finally see that retrace. We see the market going down a little bit. People usually assume that it's cooling off. But what you're still seeing is that USDT prices are still hot in China. So people are still buying USDT. Yes. So I think it's not about the BTC price in China. Most people in China that are trading crypto is just moving money. What they're doing is, well, multiple reasons. Number one is like they've been using traditional channels to move money out, such as, you know, bringing physical cash out of China. Another way would be trying to match these money trades with other vendors. Now, because they understand that one USDT or one PAX or, you know, all the other stable coins is equivalent to US dollar, there's just a market for these stable coins paying with RMB. And because more people understand this, so we're seeing real adoption, not with Bitcoin, but with USDT. Because, yeah. So when... Kind of ironic. So you see that these stable coins are being picked up. And does that have anything to do with the trade war or what's going on? Is it political situations that's pushing this? Or do you think it's just general understanding of this? Oh, absolutely. I think RMB US dollar at some point, it was 6.8 RMB. So one US dollar. And now USDT is trading at like at least close to seven. Actually, it passed seven dollars. Seven RMB to one US dollar. So I believe this trade war has some effect. But ultimately, because of capital control, which brings us back, what is Bitcoin, right? People created it because they don't want centralized money. And now we have... And, you know, like part of the reason why stable coin is having more adoption now is because they can use that... Like Chinese people are legitimately allowed to buy cryptocurrency. Stable coins is part of cryptocurrency. They can trade on WeChat, for example, and say that they're investing in cryptocurrency and not moving money out. So two parts of the trade. One is like buying the cryptocurrency, whether it's BTC, ETH or other stable coins. They're legitimately allowed to buy this cryptocurrency. And then whether they sell it, that's a different channel. So are you feeling bearish or bullish? Last question. Feeling bearish or bullish for this market right now? I think right now I'm a little bit bearish. But I think overall this is a healthy pullback. We went from like 3.3 all the way... I mean, if you look at the entire trend, I mean, 2018 was all the way down from 20K all the way down to like 3.5. And then there wasn't so much of a consolidation period. It just went all the way back up to like 14K pretty much. It's like a big V. So I think what makes sense is like if we can consolidate... What we'd like to really see is like a consolidation period between like 6 and 14K for a while before we reach all-time high. I think that would make more sense. Excellent. So let's hope that happens and catch up with you in Hong Kong, man. Cheers. Let's get an introduction. So who are you and where you're from? I'm Yvonne. I'm from Beto EX. And then we're based in Taiwan. And right now we're doing the cryptocurrency with the fiat currency to exchange. So the most interesting is we cooperate with the Famimar, which is over 3,000 convenience store in Taiwan. So we can deposit the money and the cash into the exchange automatically. Yeah. And today, yeah. So, okay. So Taiwan seems to be pretty hot then. So you're working with the convenience stores. You're trying to get people to be able to buy cryptocurrencies here in Taiwan. So what do you think of the overall market? Now we saw cryptocurrency prices go like this and now we're kind of crashing down a little bit. What's your prospect? Are you bearish or bullish about this market? Okay. We're quite exciting. And right now, basically, for example, last week we have over 10 million for one day. In transactions. Yeah, in transactions, total volume. So that's a very high overall history, trading history. For me, my journey was totally different and interesting. I sold an apartment building and everything I had for Bitcoin. What was that? What did you do that? I did that last year when the price was approximately 6,400. And I had an apartment in California and I've lived in Taiwan on and off for 25 years. And so that had an income that I was willing to sacrifice for my belief and love. It's not just my love for Mother Bitcoin, but it's also to me my understanding of central banking. And if I can be so bold to say, I'll just offer this, people can agree or disagree, but please do your own research and come to your own conclusions. But every war, essentially, not to mention the major wars, but every war, wars are funded by central banks and banks themselves. Always have been. You need to fund these activities to get the equipment there. No matter what piece of time we're referring to, this is to consolidate power for the powers that shouldn't be. And because I went through roughly 20 years of being in love with economics, not because I love money, but rather I'm really in love with freedom. And as you know, when you fly into any country, what do they tell you in the airplane? They say, hey, if you happen to have more than 10,000 US dollars or euros on your person, go talk to your daddy, boy. Right. And so this doesn't sit well with me. You know, I've been in a position where I where I was lucky to travel and lucky to to to visit a lot of countries and live in them. And that's something that I wish more people could experience. I think that that that Bitcoin and the Internet itself, it's going to have a larger the effect of Bitcoin, I think, is far greater than most people surmise. Guys, I hope you guys enjoyed all the interviews in this episode. I know it's a little bit broad, but I wanted to cover and get as much broad of a scope as possible as to the people attending, how much they know. One thing I did notice is that there's a lot of old hands in this still. So it's not new players. I feel it's like a lot of old money reentering or it's a lot of experienced players still. But there's a lot of energy in this conference. I think that's what is the positive force moving forward. Now, tomorrow is another day. So that's the final day tomorrow. I am going to try to do more interviews and some questions. So if you guys have any questions to different audiences and whoever is attending, you guys have anyone you want me to interview or any questions particularly want to ask. Shoot them down in the comments section below. Thank you guys so much for watching this. See you tomorrow. See you tomorrow.