Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency chat with Jeff Kirdeikis (TrustSwap)

And we're going to hit the button right now and we are live, guys. So, guys, welcome back to another episode of Box Mining Live here. Today, we have a fireside chat with one of my good friends, Jeff Kordakis, the CEO of TrustSwap. He has been doing some crazy-ass stuff with TrustSwap Launchpad. A lot's going on. But before we talk about that, I definitely want to catch up with a lot about what's happening on the news front. We always do these fireside chats once in a while with Jeff to find out what's going on, just comment on some of the news updates, some of maybe your concerns as well. This is a live stream. So, if you guys have any concerns, any topics floating in, we also have quite a lot of news. I mean, I'm sure there's a giant smile on everyone's faces when Elon Musk announced he's going to accept Bitcoin for Tesla's in the future. So, let's start. I guess we can start off with that. You know, I guess, Jeff, like, let's start off with how are you? How are you doing, Jeff? Yeah, I'm doing great. You know, the market is an intense one right now. I think things are evolving immensely rapidly. So, it's keeping me busy. I know you're busy, too. We were chatting just before the stream about how busy we are, what we're working on. And so, it definitely feels like kind of like just that big – it feels like, I don't know, a marathon, but at the same time a sprint. It's like trying to sprint for an entire marathon right now is what it feels like. So, I'm trying to keep well, trying to stay active outside and stuff, but keep the balance life. But it's difficult at times when the market's this wild. So, anyways, yeah, good to be catching up. And I agree, man. This Elon Musk thing – I was going to be going to bed because obviously, you know, this stream was happening. And then Elon Musk at like 1 a.m. or something, he's like, you can now accept Bitcoin. Or sorry, we accept Bitcoin for Tesla. And I'm like, oh, well, I'm not getting much sleep tonight. And not only are you going to – not only is he accepting Bitcoin, I guess we kind of saw that coming, but he's going to keep that Bitcoin too. He's not just going to accept it as a method of payment, but he's like, you send him Bitcoin, he's going to keep that Bitcoin. I think that's a big game changer. Like, that's crazy, right? So, I don't know. What do you think, man? No, it establishes not only Bitcoin as a payment currency for large transactions like this because, you know, people say, oh, it's not a coffee-buying currency. You know, to a lot of extent, I agree with that. But for large transactions like this, it's really planting a flag down saying Bitcoin is a viable global currency for this. And then – so that's already huge in itself because, you know, then you start to think, okay, well, where is this going to expand into? You know, Tesla is a lot of times the first mover in innovative spaces, you know, by putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet, now accepting Bitcoin. And like you said, man, I think people are really underplaying kind of how crazy it is that they aren't selling their Bitcoin. Like, crazy in a good way because the cost fiat to make these cars, they're not selling their Bitcoin for it. Like, there's real production costs, real overhead. And they're like, we're just going to eat it. We're going to eat the cost and we're going to stack Bitcoin because this is – like, there were seasoned financial veterans in a room. And they're discussing this and they're like, yeah, this makes sense. We're just going to stack Bitcoin. It's unbelievable. I think so too. What do you think? What are your thoughts? I think this would have been unimaginable. Like, you know, I've been in this space for too long. So I got super jaded, right? I mean, like coming from 2012, I think there were so many dreamers out there. And I'm like, you dream. Dream on. Dream on. You know, like, ah, big institutions buying crypto. Dream on. Dream on, idiot. You know, like I've been very skeptical from the start, right? And then you kind of see the momentum. I think that was kind of the turning point for me was 2016. And I was like – inside, I was like, keep my hopes low, right? Because you won't be disappointed. I think there's a lot of like – there was a lot of like, oh, you know, one day there's these dreams. One day, you know, we can buy a Tesla with a Bitcoin. And like, we finally see that day. I mean, how cool is that, right? And I think this would have definitely been something that people would – like, I would have said this is like a wild dream back in 2017. Totally. But it is happening today. And I think that's awesome. And I think that distinction is also important. You know, like you said, they have to have real fiat costs to produce these cars. I have no idea how Elon convinces board members to – like board members to execute this plan. Like, we were all kind of surprised, right? Like, you know, like Elon could have done this. Elon does crazy stuff. Like, did you hear about the story about what he did with the rocket? So he saw the rocket and he looked at the cone and he said, because of the movie The Dictator with Sacha Baron Cohen, I think in that movie, Sacha Baron Cohen, he's like, it should be pointier. And so he was like – he went to the rocket, saw the nose cone on his rocket, and he says, it should be pointier as a joke. And then they did it. They actually did it. And he talks about this on Joe Rogan. So, I mean, the guy is – he's unbelievable. He's one of the best – because Tesla doesn't spend any money on marketing, but they just do these initiatives like this that are just so genius and, well, hilarious. They're innovative. And so I think that's why it's – they're just absolutely number one. Like, I think it's all the other car companies, market cap combined, don't even make up the same as Tesla's. I think that's the current stat right now. It's insane how much this is valued. But I definitely feel like that certain innovation is necessary in this world right now. And I think a lot of people – and I think it targets a lot of people too. I think a lot of people who made Bitcoin, you know, they don't want to go for the process of going to Coinbase, cashing that out, and filling a bunch of stuff. It should be used as currency, right? That was the original purpose. And with Tesla setting the pace forward for this, I feel like this is interesting about Tesla too. Like, once Tesla does this, there's like a million copycats that are willing to do this too, right? We immediately saw a Chinese company, Meitu. So, Meitu is the one that you can beautify your face to make yourself look super hot. It's a publicly listed company in China. Do you have that filter on right now? You know me, man. There's nothing that can save this face. I'm the most punchable face on YouTube. No amount of Meitu can save my face. But that being said, I think, like, Meitu immediately bought Bitcoin after Elon bought it, right? Because it's so hot in China right now. Like, they – you know, that made Chinese news. That made Chinese media that Tesla is doing this. And, you know, all these Chinese companies are now just scrambling to say, okay, how do I buy Bitcoin right now, right? Like, it's like, Meitu bought it. Okay, now everyone else has to buy it. Now Elon is accepting Bitcoin. There is a distinction, though. I think in China they probably won't allow the acceptance of Bitcoin. That's actually legally not possible. But I think we're paving the way towards that. And even following just not just Elon's suit, but we've also seen a lot of companies, you know, like, not just companies, countries. They're looking to hold Bitcoin as well. I mean, I think Italy, they're passing a parliamentary decision to actually kind of modify it to allow the government to hold some form of digital currencies as well. So I feel like that's – this is unimaginable. So, yeah, guys, if you guys are coming to the channel, I know this is like kind of a surprise livestream. Just smash up those likes. It really does help the channel, guys. Smash up those likes. Share it as well. We're going to discuss a lot of things that's going on. We're also reading up the comments. So, yeah, thank you for our support jet lag. Guys, smash up those likes. And Angela says, Elon is just going to backhoe sucking up our BTC. I mean, that's great for him too, right? Because he's thinking about the long term. I think that's where he's at because, you know, there's no other way. There's no other way that I can convince board members. He's not going to speculate this on an hourly trading candles. He's going to – this is a long-term huddle. Yeah. And, you know, I find it so different now, only three years later from the big run in 2017. Because in 2017, I felt like there was a lot of indecisiveness on, you know, how sustainable this cryptocurrency idea was. You know, is it going to be around? And even, like, if you rewind further, like back in the 2014 days, like, everyone was like, okay, this is an experiment. Let's see how it goes. And now it's no longer an experiment, I feel. Like, now I think people really feel and understand that not only Bitcoin, but blockchain and decentralized technologies are not going anywhere. And now the question has become, how big are they going to get? And so when you look at something like Bitcoin, you know, there's even real – like, people who are managing monetary policies for countries are talking about Bitcoin as a viable alternative and store value and hedge against inflation. That's staggering. And so I think people don't really realize, you know, they think, oh, you know, I'm late, it's 50K. Sure, yeah, you know, there's a lot of room between, like, less than a penny to 50K. But what happened – like, what percentage of people own Bitcoin today? You know, it's probably less than half a percent. Especially, like, really own Bitcoin, like, not even on your, like, you know, on your exchange account. You got to, like – if you want to really own Bitcoin, you got to withdraw that out, you know, put that on a ledger, Trezor, whatever, whatever hardware wallet. And I think we're not there yet. But I think, like, every single year we're making that progress. And I think this cycle has been just crazy, right? And just speaking of the cycle, I mean, I think a lot of people are definitely concerned about, you know, the big question is, is it too late to get into Bitcoin? I think that's popping up a lot. We've seen – we definitely – it's definitely moved up quite a bit, you know. Like, that's an understatement, right? I mean, I think last year, at exactly, precisely this time, we literally saw Bitcoin flash crash to $3,000, right? Like, just put that in. Like, let that sink in. And it was like, right after coronavirus, people were just, like, mad panicking on the stock market, right? That was like – that feels like a decade ago, but it's only been a year. People were mad panicking, and there was a flash crash that took Bitcoin down to $3,400, right? Now we're at $56,000. I mean, that's just, like – it boggles my mind, like, and how people can say, oh, like, it dropped, like, 5% and it's a big dump. No, it's not. Like, look at it in a bigger scale. So – but obviously, a lot of people are concerned. I mean, people who do look at this at a bigger scale, you know, they're seeing that, you know, the signs of a bubble is coming. Do you think that we're close to the top of the bubble? Are we still on our way there? Where do you think we're at? Yeah. Well, I mean, I'd probably preface that by saying, you know, when you zoom out to, like, a five-year time horizon, I think it's almost irrelevant. You know, if you're looking at long-term time horizons, you know, getting in Bitcoin 50K, I don't think is that bad of an idea at all. I think it's actually an incredibly wise idea for – you know, you look at the USA, how much money they're printing. They just printed 20% of all their currency since the inception last year alone. And now they're printing more. They have another, like, $2 trillion stimulus package. So inflation is going crazy and Bitcoin is becoming just really strong in its value propositions. That's a long-winded way of saying, you know, long-term, it's very, very, very likely going to keep going up. But, you know, if somebody came to me with, you know, like, I only have $10,000 to my name. Should I put it all on Bitcoin today? You know, I'd probably be a little bit hesitant because that is quite an aggressive chart that we're looking at right now. Like you mentioned, it just went from 3K to 55K within a year. You know, as much as we love the meme, stocks only go up, they don't. So there will be a correction in at what time and where it is. I think a lot of traders use the technique, you know, retracing to the top. So, you know, the previous last top would be 20K. So will we see a retrace to 20K? I say the probability is actually, you know, it's there. It's for sure there. So that's my thoughts. In terms of like, you know, where the top is, it's tough to say because, you know, with NFTs coming in, we're getting a really big new rush of attention towards the crypto space that we never have seen before. So I do see that the new capital is coming in, not just with retail, but definitely with institutions as well. You know, Michael Saylor just threw his meeting for a thousand different companies to learn how to put Bitcoin on their balance sheet. So it's really it's for me, it's tough to predict. I think it's wise to be hedged for both, you know, ready, ready to buy the dip when it comes and ready to ride Bitcoin if it continues. What are yours? What's your strategy? What's your outlook? So my strategy is always like I look at my network and be like, OK, how much should I allocate to Bitcoin? Right. And I think that makes a lot more sense than just purely looking at entry and exit points. So I think at this point, right, yet again, not financial advice, but I think it's not it's unwise not to have any exposure to Bitcoin at this current point. Right. Like I feel like with the way to see it is going down, like like it's always important to look at the grand scale of things. Right. Fiat is going down. Right. Because there's so much being printed. It's inevitable at some point we're going to have massive inflation. That's just that's just a given at this current point. I mean, we don't see it now, but the writing is pretty much on the wall at this current point. You know, the world's kind of messy, too. Like I wasn't very impressed last year with how the global this is like the global politics panned out. Right. Like both not the kind of the rivalry between China, U.S. is not it's intensifying. These trade wars are getting a little bit stupid. And the really only way to isolate yourself from this whole, you know, political like this, this the turmoil of the political chaos plus money printing, plus whatever's happened in the world. Like instead of getting depressed over it, why not go and exit that? Right. You exit that and enter Bitcoin. Right. So I feel like that's kind of the way I've kind of viewed it is where Bitcoin is now something that I can, you know, I can hold like wherever I travel. I can take my Bitcoin with me so long as it's stored in a safe place. Right. So it's not like something like gold or something like fiat where, you know, the banks can literally exit you. And we've seen that last year over political reasons in Hong Kong. So, you know, if you say certain things publicly, the banks can choose to exit you for unrelated reasons. But, you know, I. All right. So so so I feel like I felt like like last year, there was a there was a point where I said, you know, I'm fed up with politics. Right. I am. I'm not going to like I know a lot of people, they should shake their fists and say, oh, complain, complain and complain. Right. And I feel like that's meaningless. If you if you're not going to do something about it, then, you know, that's worthless. But I made the decision to exit fiat. Right. That's that's that's important for me. Right. So exit fiat, have exposure. Obviously, over time, you know, I still have a still diversify a little bit. I'm not going to I'm not going to be one of those people to say, yeah, I'm only going to hold crypto. But, you know, I have like some gold. I have some other stuff. You know, recently I've been talking about property and we've been talking and exploring the project labs with people where it's like tokenizing property. But, you know, but having like looking at it as in like I have a certain amount of portfolio that I want to allocate to Bitcoin. That makes sense to me. So I think that's my kind of my personal way of taking that. What's I'm curious and I'm sure a lot of people listening to you are if, you know, for example, in just terms of percentage points, how do you divide up your portfolio in terms of like real estate gold? Or is that you just want to kind of keep that on the down low? Yeah, I do. But something weird happened, too, because initially the way I kind of viewed this was I have like Bitcoin, you know, it's like taking up like, say, Bitcoin, Bitcoin a third, Ethereum a third, VeChain was taking my strong huddle. And I have like my medium huddle and I have my altcoin account. Right. So it's like kind of like like I'm spilling my brain into three separate segments. Right. Right. Technically speaking, Bitcoin, Ethereum and VeChain were meant to be the biggest kind of holdings there. But, you know, altcoins exploded. I mean, trust swap this super well. And so my altcoin portfolio just blossomed. Right. So it became like this ridiculous number that I was like, holy crap. Like I took a look at it today. I'm like these these these number of references points are no longer valid. Right. But like like like I'm not I'm like I at a point I'm like I'm almost like an altcoin maximalist now. I'm a little bit scared. We're going to need a bigger ledger. Holy shit. So. So, yeah. So, I mean, obviously, that's performed super well. I'm going to try to rebalance it somehow. But it does go to show that, you know, the market's been performing super well. And so. So. So. So, yeah. So. So right now, crypto is taking up a grand majority. I think it was it was not the way I designed it a year ago. But I'm pleasantly surprised that this is the case. Right. Right. So I'm super happy about everything. So I'm I'm very just grateful of everything that's happening. How about you? How about you on your side? You know, how are you managing your treasury? How are you managing your funds? How's everything going that? For sure. Yeah. So I'm not so much actively investing in too many projects just because my plate is so, so full, you know, working on TrustSwap lately. So it it's really minimalized how much time I have to do the research that I used to be able to do into the projects and do the deep dives, talk to people, you know, check out, you know, how things are rolling. So it's mostly been when I've been hopping on for advisory and, you know, kind of like business development with other projects. That's kind of when I'm taking positions in different projects because and then holding them long term because, well, now, you know, I can actually help the company move forward. And then I see how the company is operating and things like this. So that's kind of probably been how I've been rocking with it. I do have a decent amount taken off the table. So it is in fiat, you know, because I am, you know, conservatively waiting for a dip. If it comes, I'm ready. If it doesn't come, well, that's that's great news. That's that's great news. So it's kind of like a win win both ways. So, yeah, I'm pretty pleased with where I'm at right now. Just pretty conservative approach. But that makes sense. That makes sense. And I think I think I wanted to say that, too. You know, there's always a stigma of, oh, my God, people are selling. And, you know, having having a certain amount of fiat for runway, it does make a lot of sense. And that's one of the first things I did with box mining when I started box mining, too. I know I quit my fiat job and I wanted to be able to stay myself and then creating a runway that can last for a relatively long time if things don't go well. And I think a lot of people don't plan for that. Like people don't you know, that's usually when people make it to the news. Like, you know, they're completely broke. They bought Bitcoin. They lost everything. And then now they're crying in a corner and stuff. That's usually bad financial management. And, you know, in many ways, like I said, like none of this is financial advice. And it makes sense to seek a financial advisor to plan these things out because, you know, there are people who ask me, you know, should I quit my job to go full time in crypto? And the answer is absolutely yes. So long as you can manage your finances. Right. Like, like I like your full time in the crypto. I'm full time in crypto. I mean, there's without a doubt, you know, like it's it's it's something hard. Like it is only for a certain type of people. But if you can do it, it's fucking amazing. It is like, yes, it is like it's beyond amazing. It's beyond crazy. And, you know, it's just like it's like like if you had the time to go back to the Internet days. Right. With the the dot com boom, if, you know, would like would you would you quit your job to make a dot com company during that time? Like, yeah, of course. Of course. Right. Like like you can find a normal job anytime. But this type of window only opens up every 10 years. Right. I think that's my kind of pitch for everyone. It's like this type of window, like where there's a lot of new technology. Like you have a time to really start getting people to adopt, to take to take on something that only happens every 10 years. Right. We saw that with the dot com boom. We saw that when the first apps were available, like the first iPhone apps, like when the first iPhone came out and people were making all these like apps for iPhone. Yeah. That was an opportunity. Right. You could have made like Temple Run and you can make like a million dollars per week or some bullshit like that. Right. And now this is this exact same thing. This is a window of opportunity so long as you can plan for it. Obviously, if you can't, then, you know, that's another story. But it's not for everyone. But it's gone. No, and I fully agree with you. And I think you mentioned one phrase that I hear quite a bit is they say, oh, you know, I'd be more into it if I had more time. And I think that's kind of the cringiest statement that I ever hear because people always have time. It's how they prioritize their time because they they have they don't have time. But, you know, they'll watch two hours of Netflix or on their drive. They'll on their drive to work. They'll listen to music rather than educational material. So it's all creative ways on how you can educate yourself in the space. One of my because obviously, you know, my friends, my family, they've all kind of like been really getting their hands into crypto in a big way. And every single person who has gotten involved that I am aware of out of my friends and family has made more than their annual salary on a multiple in the span of like six months. So, you know, obviously, this is screaming bear market. But long story short, you know, a lot of people are literally taking breaks from their jobs. There's one guy, he's a pharmacist. And he's like, I'm taking a one week vacation from my job so I can exclusively learn crypto. And it's like that is the greatest thing you can do. You know, you take a hit of whatever X thousand dollars for the week. But now you just completely set yourself up with such a strong foundation to be able to now start get going. And another guy that I kind of want to highlight, he works like just at a car dealership. But he's like, anytime I have a break, I'm just researching. I'm reading white papers. I'm looking at things. I'm getting involved in the launchpad projects, whatever launchpad it may be. And he's making way more than his salary at a car dealership. And so these are the things that, you know, I think people just don't realize. It's not like a black or white thing necessarily. Like if it's like, oh, should I quit for crypto? It's like, well, maybe just start reprioritizing your time first and then seeing if you excel at it. Or, I mean, nothing easy. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. You know, it takes time. Correct. And I saw a comment just now from Angela Wang. She says, Jeff, talking about spending two hours on Netflix is making me feel personally attacked. I think it's like, you know, like you have your breaks, but there are definitely like low points in your time. Like I remember when I first started box mining, I was doing videos like before I got to work, then after work. And then like, you know, I was like making and cutting videos up to like 12 p.m. And then releasing them and then doing comments and stuff. Like obviously that's it's not a it's not nice to do it. But I felt like that also created an opportunity. So I guess I guess to pull everything back, like obviously I built something for myself before, of course, I quit my job. I'm not saying, you know, you should just quit your job immediately. But you definitely should, you know, get your feet wet, you know. And then when you're ready, you know, I think this is a good opportunity. But beyond that, OK, let's switch topics a bit. And NFTs. All right. It's kind of crazy right now. You know, you touched upon that, you know, large scope of things. Obviously, we've seen these record breaking sales for it, you know. What's your take? What's your take? It's a mixed bag. It's certainly a mixed bag. And I think, you know, I got to be careful with how I'm saying things because I don't want to, you know, paint too broad of a brushstroke. Because I think on one hand, some NFTs are fantastic. They have great utility. One of the ones that I really liked, this musician, Rack, did an NFT auction. And, you know, when you hold these NFTs that you purchase, you get backstage access. You get VIP meet and greets. You get access to all his concerts. He's flying you out. So it's like these NFTs have like utility and value. And that's, I really, really like that. You know, isn't this exactly the meme that Elon posted? Like, little do they know I owned NFT to this music. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So like, that's kind of like on the other side of the spectrum. Like, you have the ownership to the song. Okay. It's kind of like a utility, you know, pseudo utility. But then on like the farthest side of the spectrum, you know, you have CryptoPunks, you know, 100 pixels selling for $7.5 million. I think the average price of a CryptoPunk right now is like $50,000. And there's like six spinoffs from it. And so that, you know, I get it. I feel like I'm a boomer looking at Bitcoin when I'm looking at CryptoPunks. That's what it feels like to me. I'm like, where's the value? But then they're like, they're scarce. They're rare. I'm like, that doesn't give them value. But I guess it does. So anyways, I feel like kind of like as a summary, you know, there's this spectrum of NFTs. And, you know, when there's utility and value attached to them, I love them. And I think that that is really, really, really going to scale. Even some of these like collector, like NBA top shots or hot shots, like that's kind of on like the, you know, if you actually own the rights or like, let's say a dividend every time they play that clip, that's super cool. But then on the other side, like, you know, a $7.5 million CryptoPunk, I'm not too sure, you know, how sustainable that's going to be. For sure, it can keep going up. I'm trying to understand the mentality. Like, it obviously baffled me when I saw these numbers. Because, like, you know, I would never pay that, right? Like I said to this channel many times, right? Like, I would buy an NFT art to support some artists if it's $30. But not $30 ETH. I would never, like, there's a big distinction there, right? And, like, I did talk to the guys behind Chain Guardians, right? So I talked to Edan. And so he's a big NFT collector. And he's saying that the NFT community, especially the people who've been around for a long time, they think of this in terms of ETH. Right? So they only think of ETH value, like, in terms of Ethereum rather than US dollar. So obviously, I mean, if they entered Ethereum at $10, they're willing to spend what was, you know, maybe $3,000 on a very exclusive rare NFT. And that turns out to be $300 ETH. Which, if you do the math right now, right? That would go to, what, like, $600,000 or $600,000? Let me see. $300 ETH to USD. Like, if that's the case, that would be $512,000. So I can maybe see that because, like, they're used to these Ethereum prices and they're used to their entry points. But it still baffles me how something like this, like a JPEG would sell for that. But that being said, of course, I mean, if this market can maintain, I know I'm happy for them. You know, as long as they get the value for it. So I don't want to discourage them. I think it's cool. I mean, you can collect whatever you want, bro. You know, like... You could have collected, like, 40 Teslas instead of that one JPEG. How about that? You know what I mean? Like, if it's just, if they really are making the argument, which I really have a hard time believing isn't just this, like, pseudo virtue signal. That, oh, an ETH is an ETH is always an ETH. It's like, no, an ETH clearly fluctuates in value. You can now buy, like, a thousand Teslas with the same thing you bought your CryptoPunk for. Or, you know, I think that's a hard argument to pass off. So I don't know. I'm not too in deep. To me, it feels... Because you can do so much wash trading with these NFTs. Yes, that's also the issue. I don't know if that many people realize this or if it's, like, unspoken. But, you know, I can just sell it to myself for $40,000, the CryptoPunk. And I can do that a thousand times over from a thousand accounts, use Tornado Cash. And if I'm the creator of these CryptoPunks, all I need is one idiot to buy a CryptoPunk. I just made myself $40,000. And I think that that's happening quite a lot in the NFTs. That is quite a bit. Yes, yes. I definitely think so. I definitely agree with that. And also the bad habits, the bad side of the art market comes here, too. Like, if you want to, say, launder some money. But then, you know, instead of, like, saying, you send me 200 EF, I'll be like, oh, buy this NFT. Right? So I'm sure there's, like, a bunch of that going on, which is quite negative for the space. But that being said, there are true collector mindsets. And I think that's... I mean, I'll put that argument there where, like, there are people who really do derive a lot of joy. From collecting things. And I think, surprisingly, those people are very rich, right? Because, you know, if they were collecting Bitcoin as memorabilia. Or, you know, that they had this collector mindset when it came to Bitcoin or Ethereum. They'll be very well off. So I feel like that's kind of the thing here. But, of course, to this audience here, I would say, you know, like, it is a very highly speculative space. The long-term value of these NFTs have not been proven. I think that's the other thing that you have to remember here. Is that these NFTs are, like, if you look at something like Pokemon cards. I mean, the market went hockey stick as well, right? What was, like, a 20-cent Charizard is now being sold for $2,500. Something stupid like that, right? And then we have, like, collectible shoes, right? Like, you know, like this Yeezys being sold. Like, I feel like such a boomer because I don't do these things. But, you know, like... Right. But I know about them, but I don't do it, okay? But, you know, baseball cards, comic books, there is a collectible market for all these things. And if you described it to people, you know, before these things became established markets, you'd be like, oh, ha, ha, 25 comic book will eventually sell for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, mint condition. Yeah, yeah. Like, people have thought you'd be crazy, right? But I think we're seeing something new here. But one distinction to make is that right now these things are getting listed for very high value, which is, you know... Yeah. And I think something really important to highlight, because, you know, everyone's saying, okay, these NFTs are, like, collectibles. But then you have to zoom out. And I think this is a really important point that why does art or collectibles have value? Like, if we're looking at Pokemon cards, it's because it was one of the largest franchises in the world. It's spanned. It's still going. It's, like, a 20-year-more franchise. You know, then you look at sports cards or, like, well, it's sports. It's huge. You know, you have the top players of the top games. And these are the rarest rookie cards in mint condition. It's, like, people know the NBA. They know the NFL. They know these leagues. And they have, like, empires around them. Even celebrities, to an extent, you could say, okay, well, you know, they have, like, a story behind them. And so they want to sell this NFT or a musician. But when you're coming with a crypto punk, what's the story? What's the story? Some dude made some pixels? Like, there's no story. I love the bash. I love the bash. Like, guys, big thumbs up for it, guys. Like, we're being very clear. Like, this is a very fun discussion. I love this type of interaction I can discuss to this level with Jeff. So, guys, smash up those likes. Share this video. You know, like, this is worth discussing because, like, there is a problem when something like this is worth so much. I mean, I guess congrats to anyone who did it. You were not the last person on the game of hot potato, essentially, is how it worked out to be. I guess so. I guess so. I mean, I think there will be something coming out of it. I think there will be some cool stuff coming out of it. I've seen some really good projects. And I think it's good to get the public to access crypto, not just from the nerdy side, but maybe from something they're very passionate about. I think that's also a very good element. But also, I definitely – but I don't think I need to warn people, though. Like, if people are willing to spend 300 ETH on a piece of art, you know, they probably know what they're doing. Like, I feel like I have the mother henna aspect of here where I need to, like, warn people, like, oh, maybe this is a bubble. But, like, if you have that much money to spend on a crypto art, you know exactly what you're buying, right? So, I guess I doubt – I don't think I need to protect people from this because, like, they should know what they're getting into at that point. Right? So, I mean, that's – I mean, that's my two cents. I mean, I'm not going to bash it. If you love it, you love it. You know, go ahead, right? Go ahead. Yeah. I think, yeah. And, you know, fair. I think, though, people do need to look at, like, the question, why would this be sustainable? I think that's the biggest question. You know what I mean? And, like, you know, you can make a real good argument why, you know, NBA top shots, I think they're called – someone was laughing at me because I called them hot shots in the chat. But, yeah, so, like, there's, like, a story behind it. It's behind a franchise. But, you know, a lot of these projects that are just, like, artistic JPEGs with no reputation – like, nothing reputable behind it, no story, nothing – it's, like, you know, sure, like, if you want to play the game of hot potato and – or gamble, really gamble, that it's going to just continue appreciating in price, you know, that's fine. But, you know, I think there's – I kind of like to liken it to cryptocurrency. There's a reason why, you know, Bitcoin is number one. It's slow. It's expensive. But it's number one. And that's because it has the biggest history, the biggest track record. That's why Nano isn't number one. So I think you've got to look at these NFTs coming out and just, you know, what's the history? What's the track record? I think so. I think so. I think the history is short. I mean, but, you know, yeah, I guess people will like it. And I've come to a point, you know, when I started this, I'm like, who the fuck would pay money for something I can just download for free and stick on my phone? Voila, that's an NFT. But, you know, I've come to a point of acceptance where I'm like, you know, if people want to do it, do it. You know, am I going to do it? Probably not. But, I mean, that being said, of course, not being a hypocrite, I do think, I do collect anything that's like under like $30. Like, I think like, I'm like too cheap for that. Like, there's some moon cats. I've adopted some cats recently. You know, I've made my own NFTs in the past. I mean, like, I issued those out and I always, I actually gave them out for free because I felt that was the value in it. I was like, that was a part of the story, right? I was like, oh, you know, this is an event. I commemorated an event. I'm going to give these out for free. I'm not going to even auction them. I'm just going to, you know, like that. So I don't want to be a total hypocrite here and say, I don't touch NFTs or something. But I felt like for me, that was my like disposable income to spend on something. I feel like I enjoy. So I think that's kind of the criteria. It's like if you enjoy, if this is a purchase that I think you are comfortable with saying, okay, I purchased this piece of art or whatever, this JPEG and you think it's worth that much, you want to support your artist. I think that's good. Recently, I mean, obviously I've been talking to the guys at Refinable. I'm an advisor for that project. And it's an entity marketplace. The good thing, obviously, is that it's on Binance Smart Chain. So obviously a lot of the transactions are like way cheaper. You don't have to pay like tens of thousands of dollars. And I feel like that works, you know, having fractions of a dollar to buy something. And if you want to keep it and then you have some more utility to it too. I think that's a key point where it's like it's about building additional utility to it. I mean, you mentioned projects like music and having some sort of like backdoor access or like you got to. I think it's NFT plus something. And I think that really makes sense from that. Yeah. Yeah. Because one of the comments I'm seeing in the chat right now from that 337 guy, he says, I mean, don't people gamble on random cryptos all the time hoping they will appreciate in value. And so, you know, like there's validity there, but I think you need to unpack it a little bit because different cryptocurrencies. Well, I guess I'm going to shoot myself in the foot as I talk it out, but they their utility is like a transfer of value. So, you know, are we are we now making the argument that NFTs are like a transfer of value, like a cryptocurrency when the gas fees are so crazy? Yes, it's it's it's a big topic to unpack. I feel like we you know, everyone's in the chat like you guys are boomers. And I'm like, yeah, I know. It's OK. It's OK. I'm fine being a boomer. I'm fine. You know, I think it was with this, you know, pseudo boomer mentality. We're still able to capture the massive upside with projects that have sustainability and are going to be a long around for the long haul and still able to catch the trends. And we're not going to get burnt and left holding the bag on projects that are just, you know, just glorified JPEGs. And so, you know, I think a lot of people are going to debate me to the death on that. But I think I think we we open a can of worms here. We got Pixel Junkies says Michael and Jeff are funny. It's weird to buy a digital image, but it's totally not weird to send $60,000 on a virtual coin. I mean, but let's let's let's let's take that. Let's take that statement and now kind of like expand it to the topic of NFTs, like why an NFT would have value and like the backstory that we were talking about. Right. Like it has to have a history. So if you're comparing an NFT to Bitcoin, Bitcoin's been around for a decade, my dude. Like it's that has history. So show me an NFT. It's been around for over 10 years. Well, yeah, exactly. And I think Bitcoin. I mean, that's a special case where it's like it's this currency that can transfer anywhere in the world. And there's there's no other thing prior to Bitcoin that can do this. Right. You can send it from China. Like you can send value from China to the States by like right now. You can't even do that because if you want to send value out of China, you want to send it in USD. There's something called safe. So China actually prevents you from spending since any more than $250,000 overseas. Right. So so you're doing something very unique on Bitcoin. So I think that it cannot be done elsewhere in the normal financial sector. That's not possible. Right. I can even help your brother buy a beer beer. So there's value there. And I would argue to say that with a lot of the DeFi projects that I look at, the key thing I'm looking at is value. Right. So like does it change or does it can it can it improve the world in a certain way that gives it particular value? So I think that's what I'm looking for. But but but that being said, I do know a lot of people who just buy coins because they're cool. Like Dogecoin would be a primary example. It's like a funny dot. Cool. Right. Well, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to go there. I'm going to hold myself from going there. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. You know, I think like every currency or NFT has like an ethos behind it, whether it's to be funny and a meme or, you know, I think like what I think you and I both really see in Bitcoin. I'll just speak for myself. But it's like, you know, when I look at the fiat system, it's it's terrible. It's disenfranchising to everybody around the world. And there's no there has not been a way to opt out until Bitcoin has come. So I see Bitcoin, Bitcoin's utility as an ability to not only opt out of an archaic, outdated system that's really serving an oligarchy and corporate class. It's a way to empower us and really create a currency that can scale across the world. So for the people. So, I mean, that's a cool utility. I don't know if CryptoPunks do that. Maybe someone can make the argument. But so, yeah. Well, I think so. I think I think I think there is value here. I definitely think getting the audience here is good. And I think like like to me, I feel like it's like affordable collectibles. At least I guess maybe it's it's just me expressing I'm not rich enough to buy this. Maybe it's like it's that's that that's maybe about the people one. Hey, you know, of course, it's me. It was me. I'm the real Satoshi. Right. So but but I feel like I feel like maybe it is me complaining that I'm being priced out at this current point. But I definitely don't feel like I can't afford to buy a Beeple's. At this current point. But I, you know, like I think I learned this year, you know, people have fun doing this. You know, enjoy it. Right. Like go have fun. Nothing wrong with it. And, you know, if we can build a whole entire ecosystem. Because the way I kind of see it is now I definitely feel like there's now sufficient use cases for NFT plus. You know, the idea of not just for art, but like NFT plus a video game or NFT plus like the melding of making sure that the art is authentic. Right. Authenticating something. Yes. Right. I think this idea of this NFT plus really makes sense. And I feel like that's what we're going to have. We're going to see these cycles of. Right. We see some DeFi cycles. We're going to see some NFT cycles. We're going to see some Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin rally cycles, major cycles or forgotten coin cycles. I feel like now NFT is like it's solidified itself to become one part of one of the crypto cycles that we see and experience in this space. Yeah. And because you've been such a loud advocate for Engine, you know, for years now. And, you know, finally, finally. I'm so toxic. Right. The toxic Engine supporter. So hats off to you for sticking with that one. Holy fuck me, man. But that's a great example of NFT plus, you know, where you're like fusing it with video games. This thing has utility. It's tradable. It's that I really, really like. And I really hope and I think would make the world literally. Well, not like a better place in like this kind of Kumbaya way, but it would make the world a better place in like the ability to transfer value, you know, in a digital economy exponentially. So, yeah, I agree with you 100% on that. And I feel like we're so grounded here. I really love this discussion. So I think that's kind of wrapping up our NFT discussion, guys. Feel free to join in. I think we'll definitely make a clubhouse session one day. Like boomers talk about NFTs. Like we'll shake our fists violently. But, you know, deep down inside. But I think there is something here. But I'm definitely looking for that NFT plus. I think I'm going to leave that there. But, okay, let's talk a little bit about TrustSwap. I mean, the platform is doing phenomenal. It's one of the most aggressive teams that's developing at this current point. I guess for people who are watching, you know, maybe for people who haven't heard about what TrustSwap is, you know, you're the CEO of TrustSwap. Why don't we take it from the horse's mouth? You know, what is it first? Okay, we'll start with the most basic one and we'll talk a little bit about developments and everything going on. For sure, yeah. So TrustSwap is essentially, it's a DeFi ecosystem. So we deal a lot with different token payments, transactions of value, ways that you can securely store value, transact with it. And so that obviously ties into different how you can launch projects. So we, of course, have a launch pad. It's essentially like the token economy. It's, you know, we're talking about NFT plus. We're like PayPal plus. You know, we do transactions. But then we also add like a ton of different customizations that you can do. And then one of the things that people are really excited about, of course, right now is the launch pad, where if you stake 4,000 swap, you get guaranteed allocations to these launch pads that roll through. I think the average ROI on these launch pads currently is around a 13x. So people are really pleased with that. You know, we're working on a few things that we're launching. So like one of the big things, we have a website called team.finance. This is token locks and liquidity locks. So, you know, if a project, you know, creates a bunch of tokens and, you know, they put their liquidity on Uniswap, they can secure that in a smart contract. So you know that they're not going to sell that. That adds a layer of security. Currently, we have just under a billion dollars locked on there, which is, I think, the top might be the top 20 in crypto actually now, which is pretty good. Congrats, dude. Like, like I saw team. I saw team. I was like, wow, like the interface looks great. You know, like obviously full disclosure, I'm an advisor for TrustSwap. So it's kind of like patting myself on the back here, but I'm definitely going to pat Jeff on the back here and say, you know, dude, like it looks fantastic, right? The interface, the UI looks amazing. It's super simple to use, super understandable on how to use it. I feel like this is something that's super necessary in this space. And I feel like a lot of people when, you know, it stands testament to something that I said very early, which is like Jeff builds fast, right? Like it's very, very impressive. I definitely want to say, you know, like moving fast in the space really matters, right? And, you know, TrustSwap started off just with payment sending, right? But Launchpad came out, TrustSwap Launchpad, where people can get into new projects. Then the token lock system, you have a billion dollars locked. I mean, dude, like how insane is that, right? Like, you know, for any traditional financial institution to say, yo, we locked a billion dollars under our system. Within the first nine months of operation. It's kind of crazy. Like this is the craziest part about decentralized finance. And I think a lot of people still don't see it. I think that's kind of the, I guess, the boomer moment for people, right? Like, I guess, you know, if there are boomers watching, they're like, what the hell is going on here? Like, how is this even real, right? But that is the case. There's just finance is being locked. It's because it's important, because people are requesting for this, right? Because there's so much like room to scam in the space where projects, they create this new coin, they hype it up, and then they just like dump it, rug pull on people, right? That quote of where they just completely destroy the entire market, run away with the cash. And you provide the safety lock for them, right? And that's why values be locked. It's because projects, because people, not just projects, people are requesting this to be used, right? So that's being developed, a very, very ambitious roadmap. What's coming up? What's coming next for PressSwap? Yeah. So what's coming next is actually kind of touches on the point that, you know, about like the scams and the rug pulls. Because obviously, token locks and liquidity locks, like they help. They're like a seatbelt in a car, you know. It's going to help in a crash, but it's not going to prevent somebody from dying. What we're coming out with next, it's really incredible, actually. How should I start to preface this? So with token locks and liquidity locks, somebody could still mint more tokens. There could be a contract exploit. So there's still ways that they could, you know, rug or scam, even with these two token locks and liquidity locks. So the question became, well, how do we prevent contract exploits, whether it's intentionally internal or external? And how do we prevent minting of extra tokens? Because, you know, we don't want to just check the code. We don't want to become auditors. That's not scalable. So we created kind of like a trifecta in security and launching tokens cross-chain. This is going to be happening on every single blockchain, or the major ones at least. So what it is, is we're introducing a fully customizable and fully pre-audited token generator. So if you want to create a token with whatever supply, whatever metrics, whatever staking, whatever rebase, come in, create it. It's 100% free to do. Then you lock the tokens. You lock the liquidity. Well, so now you have a token that is fully audited. So you've just saved yourself 30K on the audit. You saved yourself two weeks. You probably saved yourself $20,000 on development fees. You probably saved yourself two weeks on development time. So you saved yourself like 40 grand. You saved yourself a month of time. A lot more, especially if it's cross-chain. That's a lot more. Two weeks is not going to get you a cross-chain token. Well, so the cross-chain compatibility, just to double click on that. When you mint your token, the token itself won't be cross-chain. You'll be able to mint. You'll be like, hey, listen, I want to mint 30% on ETH, 30% on BNB, and then 30% on Cardano, let's say. You'll have that capability, but you'll still have to build. We don't have the bridges built yet. Okay, right. So that's how it kind of works cross-chain. But yeah, 100%, man. It's going to be really crazy because essentially we feel that we've removed all of the major technical exploits from creating a token. We've made it 100% free to do, and it's cross-chain. So kind of we're thinking like, well, we expect that this is going to just explode across crypto because now it's kind of like NFTs. Anybody can create an NFT. Now anybody can create a crypto, and they can transparently in the dashboard show that it's essentially tokens locked, no mint, fully audited. And so it's like, well, we just increased the security across crypto. And I actually see this really increasing the utility across these scalable blockchains, like whether it's Binance Smart Chain or Polkadot or Avalanche, because they don't have many apps, many tokens, many users, but now if people can start minting tokens for free and instantly, it's going to absolutely explode. And then just the final thing before, just to kind of finish the rant off, but anytime somebody mints the token, there's really only like one pseudo fee. And that's we take 0.4% of the total supply, and we put it in a farming pool. So it's a 30-day farming pool, and people can then stake swap to farm that token. So every token that's generated, you can farm for free. It's auto community building. It's auto community building. Right, right, right. So that's the value for the token holder. So you do distribute it to people. So it might sound like quite a lot, but giving that to community makes sense. So that's actually pretty cool. That's a really good idea. I think that's, you know, I think that's, you know, like a lot of projects, I think they struggle to do this. So I think this is something that people are trying to be faced with right now. Like they want to have cheaper fees, but at the same time, Ethereum is quite expensive. So being able to have this cross-platform token and having that transparency is smart. So when's that going live? When's happening that? Yeah, that one's going to be live end of April on ETH, and then probably shortly thereafter on Binance Smart Chain and Algorand as well. Just because, yeah, they're, sorry, Avalanche. Avalanche, my mistake. My mistake, Avalanche. Yeah. And then, of course, obviously we have Swappable. That's our NFT marketplace. And that should be coming out mid-month. So in about 20 days from now. So, man, how do you get these developers, man? Like how, how, how, why so faster? Why so faster? Yeah. No, I just, you know, it's fun to build quickly. And when you have a solid team, then it's not more work because then you just start segmenting your team into little branches. So we have like, we have a swappable team. We have a smart launch team. We have kind of like a generalist team that's working on a whole bunch of different stuff. And then, you know, we have project managers for each one. So it actually, it scales really nicely. It's fun. It keeps our roadmap like really robust. Yeah. We're, we're enjoying it. We're definitely scaling. We're hiring a lot lately. So. Nice. Congrats. Actually, if anyone listening wants to hop into crypto, head to a cryptojobslist.com and you'll see probably a few posts from TrustSwap looking to hire for different positions. So, yeah. Direct access to Jeff, guys. Direct access to Jeff. So. Yeah. We were talking about going full-time crypto. So there you go. You know, crypto has jobs, man. And that's a great way to start. Get access. Get exposure. Get a good understanding. Man, it's, it's, it's crazy. So. All right. So that's happening on TrustSwap. What else is happening in life? Well, you know, what are you excited on? Like what's, what's, what's happening with, with everything else? In terms of other projects? Well, I mean, I'm sure everyone's kind of looking for like, oh, the next, the next little gem. So I won't, I won't go too, too wide. I'm just going to talk about one right now. Cause I mentioned a lot of them, other ones before previously, when we've hopped on. This is one that I just signed on as, as an advisor in business development. And so what this project does is, you know, we all know Travala. You can buy, you know, trips with cryptocurrency. We all, well, some of us might know shopping.io. You can buy on Walmart, eBay, Amazon with cryptocurrency. And this new project called Curate, ticker as XQR, no, XCUR, sorry. They are essentially combining both of those. And in addition, integrating a peer-to-peer marketplace. So you can do peer-to-peer trades for goods and services with crypto. And they have a mobile app for it as well. And it's still very new. If you check out the chart and the value on CoinMarketCap, and then you compare it to something like Travala or something like shopping.io, I think people will like the asymmetric risk reward ratio there. And obviously I'm working with the Curate team. And so I have a good insight on their work ethic. And it's very, very good. So XQR, right? XQR? XQR. It should be Curate. It would be like a little black square logo, I believe. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Curate style. That sounds interesting. So it's like what? Peer-to-peer. So you can like enter. So wait, Curate I see right now is NFT marketplace only. Or how does that work? No, no, no. So maybe it's certainly not just an NFT marketplace. No, no, no, no, no. So yeah, discover it. So the wording on the website, I'm going to write this down. This should be updated. Because it's a marketplace for everything where you can purchase with crypto. So NFTs are part of it. And it looks like this isn't, yeah, you're right. It's not expressed well enough on the kind of like the hero section of the landing page. So I'll chat with them. We'll get that updated. But yeah, it's essentially like if you want to transact for anything with crypto, whether it's peer-to-peer or whether it's through a third party like eBay, Amazon, Walmart, Alibaba, Curate is where you're going to be able to do it. So we're talking about earlier, adding utility with Bitcoin where you can now buy Tesla with it. Well, now you can purchase literally almost anything with cryptocurrency. So this for me is like I like it a lot because it really helps kind of like the rhetoric of adoption. Well, what's the utility for these magic internet coins? Well, you can literally buy shit with it now and pretty much anything, anywhere. And you can re-speculate that too, right? Which is kind of interesting. That's a peer-to-peer afterwards. So you're like, ah, well, maybe I don't want a Tesla, but I can sell my pre-order for my Tesla, you know, like as an NFT. Maybe that could be interesting. Maybe. Yeah. I definitely see that happening, man. I definitely see like this kind of secondary marketplace. Like I'm just trying to wrap my head around it because I feel like that's super interesting, right? Like these NFTs can represent individual things. And like, you know, I was kind of like talking with Labs. So Labs is the real estate project we're looking at. And, you know, using NFTs to represent a special purpose vehicle or some sort of contract that has ownership of property. Right. That is actually quite interesting. Like this creates the ability to have a much wider marketplace for something that is very, that never really had that marketplace before. So not just property, but like there was this idea of like, why can't you make like NFT pigs? I know that sounds like super stupid. Right. But like, but it actually started making sense because like this NFT can represent this pig. Right. And there's actually a giant industry. Like I'm not a real life farmer, but something that I kind of identified, which is very important in the that's happening right now is that there's a very big lack of pigs in China. This is something that like if you're, if you're in China and you do business, you know what's happening because they had to slaughter a lot of pigs due to this virus that was running around and killing the pigs. And they, it turned out that because the Chinese population, they love eating pigs, pig prices went up and they were trying to find ways to increase the breeding process. And one of the ways they did this was by, you know, buying these breeding, breeder pigs that would breed more pigs and then ship them off to China. So like, obviously this is far in the future, right? Obviously there's no project that can do this now. But I think this idea of whether you can like say you can buy a breeder pig and then you can speculate on these assets and be able to trade on these assets and, you know, take apart, you know, like this empathy represents this particular breeder. You get the profits of the future sales, you know, obviously just a lot of hurdles to overcome, but I can definitely see that happening. Right. I'll be like, yo, Jeff, like check out my pig. You know, like that, this, this NFT is no longer just an art. Right. But this NFT has got statistics of how many additional pigs is bred in the past. Like, it sounds like a joke, but it makes sense. Right. No. Like, yeah, it's got a history of like producing, you know, top of the line pigs. And now this is an asset I own and it's tradable. Right. And I can be like, yo, I can show that pig to you. But yo, check out my pig. You know, you want to buy that or, you know, we can have two pigs. Right. I don't know. Like, there's something there. There's something there you just need to kind of connect that. No, a hundred percent. I think like at a high level, you know, you're talking about the tokenization of assets and whether like it's, it's really big assets, you know, going into fungible ERC 20 tokens for a real estate property, or whether it's, you know, individual items that are, you know, probably priced below like a hundred thousand dollars that are individual and unique, which are probably more, you know, relevant for NFTs, maybe higher than a hundred thousand dollars, depending on people's bankroll. Um, but I think, you know, one of the guys in the comments mentioned, he had a good comment. Let me try to find it. I can't find it, but essentially the comment was like, the problem is the custodianship of this, you know, like for example, you own this pig for, let's say, let's say it's a beautiful pig. It bench presses 500 pounds. It can run a, you know, a three second, 40 yard dash. Um, you know, but then the farmer like accidentally kills it. Well, you know, how do you, how do you, cause it's like, that's tough. And so it works for things like artwork. And then if you have like, you know, different, well, if it's a pig, sorry, too bad. It dead now. Right. It'll be like, you open the NFTF. Sorry. It died. Rip. Right. Okay. Okay. That's not, it's not a good joke. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Rip. Right. But I mean, I mean, like, like, obviously there's kinks to work this out. Right. Like, like this is not a, like a full blown project. I'm not trying to show anything. Right. I think that's important to discuss. This is just like a hypothetical situation that I found was kind of very interesting to just talk about. But yeah, but I think, yeah, there, there is that loss. I think now, now that NFT is just a memory of the pig that you once had. Um, but, but you know, it could have been good while it was the last day. So, so, um, obviously there's issue with custodianship, but, um, um, like, like working out these barriers, I think is going to be the objective for the next five, 10 years. I don't think it's going to be achieved this, these few years, like these few weeks or these few months. But I feel like this is something that can be achieved in the future. And I think like that's, that's something that's quite interesting because like if you, if that, that will blow up a lot of markets. Cause say we know we have commodities markets, right? We know that's been traded like rice commodities and, uh, you know, you have like futures on oil. Like this is stuff is like, this stuff is vastly traded right now, but there's definitely no like individual pigs or individual like shoe or something like, like yet again, like there was this talk about like, if, if say it, this NFT represents a shoe, right? Like I know these like Yeezys are being traded like crazy, but if this represents a shoe at a warehouse, you can still create this market for it, which, um, you know, blockchain, you do it for, uh, it's super easily. And this, this represents a particular size of shoe, like this particular, like it's like a size 9.5 Yeezys, uh, manufactured this style. This is the photograph of it. And then now you can trade it and tell the final person wants to cash out. They want to like get the deliver to their house. Then they, they, they click the button, the warehouse ships it to them. Like that, that could be an interesting use case for the NFT. So, um, yeah, I mean, there's still a lot of hurdles to overcome. I feel like it's not, it's not my position right now to solve all these problems. I feel like this is where the opportunity of the space is. Um, I saw, I saw someone in the chat say, press F for the poor piggy. Uh, we just slaughtered a poor piggy, but yes, um, you know, uh, May his life live on in an NFT. Yeah, man, it's life live on in an NFT, man. That's, that's going to be interesting. So I, I guess, I guess I, I should say we should start wrapping up now. Um, it's, um, it's been an hour. Um, should we take some questions from the audience? Like maybe we'll do a five, 10 minutes of questions. Um, so guys shoot some questions down below. I really want to, uh, make this as interactive as possible. If you guys did like the stream, I mean, I love these streams because it's a very casual time to talk. I feel like it's one of those times I can just relax and chat with people. And Jeff is definitely one of those people that I can relax and talk with. Um, you know, uh, and I definitely need to work out. Like every time I see Jeff, because like, because Jeff used to be, uh, my gym partner. Right. So like every day, uh, we'll be like, oh man, I have to go to the gym because Jeff's going, you know, and that, that was a motivation. So, um, you know, uh, yeah. So, uh, you just ask away questions, man. Jeff, like, uh, definitely like I'm reminded I should work out tomorrow. I'll be inspired. Are you working out tomorrow? We got to get you to Canada, man. This is, this is the healthy lifestyle paradise. You're, you're, we both know you're coming out soon enough. So we'll just get ready. Yeah. Pretty soon you're not going to, your shoulders aren't going to be able to fit in your screen. You're going to have to zoom out your camera a little bit. Joe. Exactly. That's the, that's the spirit. That's the spirit. All right. So, uh, we still have a few questions about uptrend. So I guess, um, you know, Jeff also runs uptrend. So what's happening on there? What's, what's going on? Totally. So I did a very, very, very big spiel about it on a recent live stream on one of the Axion live streams. Um, so you, if you guys want to kind of, you know, in the interim, try to check out the updates on X. I'm not going to do the spiel right now. It's like, it's a five minute spiel at least. So I'll save the time. Um, but long story short, you can check out that or, and, or within the next five days, we're going to have a really big announcement update. There's going to be a big pivot for uptrend, a big change. Long story short, more news coming. Everyone who holds tokens is going to be done right by it's going to be a net positive for the ecosystem. Bottom line. So, um, yes, that's, that's kind of the summary. I'll leave it. All right. Check that out. Check, check out the other streams. Okay. So, okay. So, uh, uh, check out the other streams. Okay. We've got Elijah Killens' favorite Rick and Morty episode. Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question. I mean, the one that you just always hear about that just always pops into your head is, is the pickle Rick. But I don't know if that's the favorite one. What, what's your favorite? While you talk about it, maybe I'll think of another one. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Like Rick and Morty, I always think of citron sauce. Cetron sauce, if you want to say it in American. Um, I don't know that the episode of that sauce on it. And I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but episodes with Birdman, I kind of hate him. Oh my God. Toxic characters like that. I don't know, man. It's, uh, okay. Okay. Okay. I know which one I like. I don't know. I know which one I like. There was an intergalactic episode where there's like these intergalactic, the Vindicators. And, um, the Vindicators assembled and, um, uh, it turned out that, uh, they assembled for nothing. And then they were in like Rick's trap. I think that, that episode was like fricking amazing. I don't know. Right. Right. Right. I think one of my, one of my favorite moments, um, and I, I forget the guy's name. And if I'm wrong on this, I'm going to sound like an idiot, but I think his name is like Mr. Poopy bum hole or something. And anyway, anyways, he's like this like blue guy and, um, they were going around and like, they were like, there was like all these infiltrators. Like people were like, just like spawning and they had to find like who the imposters were. And if the, if, and the signal was, if you were overly nice, you were an imposter. If you had never done anything mean you're an imposter. And so you had to be shot. And so they shoot this one guy and, um, and then he actually, he starts dying and it turns out he's not an imposter. And he just goes, I'm sorry for being nice. He just dies. That's so Canadian. That's cool. Canadian. Jeff, that's that, that's your Canadian heritage going through. Oh man, I need to watch some more TV, man. All right. Uh, okay. So, so there was a question about top of market. So this is from, um, uh, Glimber Junianas is where do you see the crypto market at the end of this year? Jeff. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Well, I, well, at the end of the year, that's a great question. It's, it's, you want to put your dick on it. I mean, that's just John McAfee. Thank you. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Like, like if you're wrong, you'll lose your dick. Let's, let's put it this way. We'll play gun to gun to the head. You have to be within $10,000 and you have to make a guess right now. Holy shit. January 1st, 2022. Oh man. I'm going to go. Oh, this is such a BS thing. I think it's going to go higher than have a huge consolidation and then have a slow run up. So I think we might be around like 30. 35. 35. I'm going to say 35 by January 1st, 2022. So grounded, Jeff. So grounded, Jeff. That's, I know. It's a, it's a boring guess. I don't know. What do you think? All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. So we remember that like, all right. The chat remembers. This is a pair, you know, if this is a choose your own story, the chat will remember this. It's 35K. Right, Jeff. Okay. I think it's going to go higher first. Yeah, I think so. So 35K. All right. We have a bit more optimistic. All right. Um, I definitely also agree with you that we're still seeing the rally. So, I mean, uh, we've seen those charts, right? Where the most famous one is the rainbow chart. I kind of keep bringing that on this channel. And, um, you kind of see like it's a logarithmic chart and like, we're kind of in the middle of this run up. So right now, if we like, if we run up and we hit the top of this, that's going to be 120K. And then, um, I kind of feel like that's going to happen like June, July ish. And then, yes, I definitely agree that, um, you know, as with everything, it's going to pull back. So it could be possible that after 120K, we could pull back to the previous all time high of Bitcoin. I think a lot of people, you know, that that's like, that's like the obvious answer. Right. But I do think we kind of recover. I think, I think we're actually going to be above it. So, um, let me be a little bit more optimistic than you. I'll, um, I'll put a 75K, 75K, 75K, January 1st. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty optimistic still. I'm, I feel like, I feel like, um, even if we take a fall here, right, even if we take a fall here, even after, uh, running up to, to that high and take a fall, I still feel that, that, that Elon's just going to buy the dip, you know, like Elon's going to buy the dip. He's, he's, he's going to, he's going to go there and he's going to buy the dip. So, so that's going to be a possibility. Um, and, and it's going to be moving back up towards the January times, you know, it's, it's January's like January's after the Chinese, not, not the Chinese days. It's January's after December. Right. So that's, that's after everyone goes. And, you know, after holidays, we've seen movements up. So maybe, maybe, maybe, and then maybe it's going to sit here. And my guess isn't, isn't because I don't think there's going to be a lot of really good adoption and like institutions coming into Bitcoin. My, my guess is so low because I think retail is so overly emotional. And when it goes down, they just hands in the air. Like retail is incredibly emotional. And I think that's going to really spiral things to take a hit for a bit, but we'll see. Let's, um, I'm going to put it in my calendar. You say 75, I say 35. It'll be a gentleman's bet. Let's, let's see what happens. All right. All right. All right. And, uh, yeah, let's, let's see what happens, man. Let's see what happens. But I definitely feel like there, I definitely feel like a lot of people aren't prepared for dips. I think that's it. Like, um, I definitely feel like you're super grounded in that sense where, you know, you tell people exactly what it is at, right? Like, um, there's a, there's a lot of emotion coming into retail. I feel like every time there was a dip on the market, people freak the hell out or, or lose interest, which is the most dangerous, right? Like that's, that's like the prime buying time. Like, why would you lose interest? Yes. Um, uh, and then you see like when, when things go up, all these YouTubers pop up out of nowhere and then they're like, Oh my God, I'm like a fucking wizard. Right. But are you, are you like, you know, I've been producing shit throughout the entire bear market, right? When no one gave a crap. And that was when I accumulated, it was very clear what I was doing. And then now you come in like, like during the bear bull market, like, Oh, I made money. I got, did you, did you really? But anyways, you're certainly seeing a lot more trading algorithms pop up in a bull market. Oh, we're so profitable with our trading algorithms. Like, no, my man, that's just the market itself. Like everyone's a genius in the bull market. Correct. Correct. I think that is true. And then, you know, I've got scammed by people in the past pretending to be genius traders and then they'll, they'll do something insanely stupid. Um, but yeah, that's a story for another time. Like I, I, I fell into that trap of listening to other people. I was very, quite early on in my space where like, Oh, maybe these guys are good at trading because that's not their entire job. And then it turned out to way underperform. So I feel like, you know, it's one of those things you definitely feel fall victim to at first where you feel like you can beat the market, but you know, um, do you do a real way to beat the market is to, to, to get in on launch pads, get in launch pads, that, that, and then also of course, just like, um, having a good wide scope of things. Uh, I don't know. I think that worked pretty well. So guys, I hope you guys enjoyed this session. Thank you so much, Jeff, sir, for coming in. Um, definitely keep us updated. Yep. For sure. Of course. Yeah. There's always that little tiny delay when we talk, but, um, but yeah, but yeah, thank you so much for coming in. I hope this session was really helpful for you guys. Smash the, um, likes, um, and also guys like, um, if you guys want to check out TrustSwap, definitely check it out. The roadmap is freaking amazing. Um, and also, yeah, just everything else that we talked about here, we're going to put up, uh, um, put our comments as well. If you have questions with Jeff, you really, I definitely saw that you read comments here and we'll hope to have another one of these soon. So guys, uh, thumbs up to that. Um, thank you guys. See you guys soon.